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Carmine Assent Feedback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Data8671, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Attempt 6 at writing this thread

    Some feedback for @jbregg Overall, it's a good map, if a little in the defender's favour.
    What do I like?
    • The overall feel of the map is great
    • Requires a little more thought than the average map
    • The size is massive
    • Potential for further work to add different versions with other gamemodes

    What don't I like?
    • It could do with some more buildings around the base of the hill just there to look nice (Most maps have them. Pro mine and Carmine have very few)
    • A few more flank routes (I know it already has a lot) as some areas can be camped too easily
    • Like with Maggon and Zedek, having places for attacking heavies and snipers to set up from a distance would be good
    • Quadgun positioning. It was a concern on UAT, and for me it still is
    Talron likes this.
  2. Eagle 11 Eagle_11 Well-Known Member

    Disclaimer: I have been on the map only a few times yet. Those have been like 4 times as defender and only once as attacker.

    - From the attacker's perspective: Its a meatgrinder. Totally feels like Prometheum Mine overall again.
    - From the defender's perspective: The defensive positions are such advantegous its any defender's wet dream.
    "The only way to win is for the defenders to screw up" didnt apply more than here at anywhere else.

    - The jumppacker classes have much fun to have on this map, were it not for the terrain heavily favouring the defenders they would perhaps continue to be useful beyond point A. The matches usually stall at point B as both the point interior and exterior can be completely covered, without any significant blind spot that would present the attacker an opportunity to close in.

    - The map is way too huge for what it is, if that wasnt enough terrain has been put to use for artificially enlengthening the already stretched dimensions further. Several places have slaloming, zig-zag ramps which are when factoring in the size of the map, are completely unnecessary.

    - Again, i have observed, probably as an byproduct of the map's large and complexive design, the attackers get lost easily searching for an way to the area they are supposed to be attacking. The joke of Blackbolt about putting up signs with arrows pointing towards the entrance along the routes may have become necessary here.

    - A point could use resupply boxes upstairs, there should be atleast one on each floor.
    - B point is an fiasco.
    - Never been to C yet. As i have said the attack tends to come to an halt around B.
    DrMauf likes this.
  3. SmurfKun Tamu Well-Known Member

    A point to B is fine if a bit grindy and long (most stall at B)
    Its from B to C that's a real pain as attacks. It takes literally a minute if not more to try to flank them and from how it favors the defenders you are forced to waste precious time to have any chance. The frontal entrance is a meat grinder and it also takes nearly a minute to get to and if they have suppression/aoe on it then its even more of a pain.
    If B is the Iron cage with the balcony looking down and easy for defenders then C is the Iron cage x3 with tons of stairs.
  4. Fiesty_Won Fiesty_Won First Blood!

    I know this sounds stupid......but adding arrow textures with some labels to tell which way to go would go MILES in improving a complex fortress like this.

    It also wouldn't be weird to have signs in a fort to inform where things are at.

  5. Mauf DrMauf Subordinate

    C point is specifically nasty as both entrances (if I remember correctly, havn't played there as defender yet) to C cap room can be covered from one balcony over the stairs leading up to the room. That balcony from what I remember is not attackable from any point that wouldn't be within a field of fire of said balcony. Pair this with a loooong walk for the attackers and it's a very tough nut to crack unless the defender team messes up.
  6. SmurfKun Tamu Well-Known Member

    He has learned and A is a prime example of what your saying, B is less so but doable
    Its C that's the problem. I am guessing when players tested the maps they were vets players vs vet players. This meant that most of the problems and mind set of the normal average players got lost in translation.
    Now coupled this with the fact that LSM has fewer of such players and it makes it hell.
    5 times i have seen attacks get to C and 1 time won. I have played the map about 10 times. 50/50 attack def
    1: Eldar Myst stack (12+) VS orks (they won with by caping out with 4 minutes left and 10 lives left on point)
    i was defending
    2: CSM various guilds/pubs (a 5 man bro and a couple of others) VS orks (lost with the enemies having 5 lives) i was attack
    3: Random LSM vs random CSM By the time we got B there was only 4 minutes left of which the team spent 1-2 firing out where to go and the rest being grinned down
    i was attack
    4: VII/ and others (6 VII, 3 guilded and the rest pugs) vs CSM Got B with 6 minutes, got inside with 3 minute left but still could not kill them all or cap
    i was attacking
    5: DLB/pubs vs eldar (Warriors of prophecy and some Myst) Got B with 6 minutes left and we got grinded down with eldar having 30 lives left. We flanked from all sides and got no where, tried diversion/ sneaking and got no where.

    C is porous and hard to "castle" theoretically but in practice its paint a different story to me. The long walk, the loads of climbing you have to do to get to some decent flanking routs and the easy frontal routes being easy to defend from 1 area that you cant get to unless you sneak people inside prior to B falling (what myst did) or you get lucky/poor defenders (VII match) makes it just unbearable.

    Its hard to get jump assaults into to unlike B, Its hard to trade fire with them because they are covered very well and its hard to sneak/flank because it takes so long to do so that aren't in a easy kill zone (taling about talking side towers/ paths or going behind and trying to get to C
  7. Lord Ravagerx Deadknight Well-Known Member

    to big (need more players) 0r bot assists
  8. Timers are never fun but I guess that's a physical law of the universe of EC at this stage so I guess whatcha gunna do right?

    If your on offense its basically gg right then and there. spawn points for offenders, not limited to but especially on C are just much too far away.

    I really like the little underground passageways though, reminds me of the Dwarfen underways of the old world, that and I just like little hidey holes and nooks and craneys to explore lol.
  9. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    As with the last playtest, A and B are fine, C is awful.
    Right now we have the additional problem that a lot of people don't know, where to go and attack the stairs of death head-on.
    As soon as this is figured out and a good meta has been established, I assume C will take about 8 minutes to fall so either you bring that time from B or you fail.
  10. Lord Ravagerx Deadknight Well-Known Member

    PVE the map

    def siege against tyranids

    map is beautiful but empty (ez to kill attackers)

    if you are good in range and heavies, this map is for you(if you have good medics you can stop enemies in A point)
    Data8671 likes this.

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