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Can we have a honest talk about the Mark of Nurgle?

Discussion in 'Chaos Space Marines' started by Ecaja, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    The khornbolter and the Manyslayer are decent. They are not gamebreaking op but you can take them and do well with them. Unlike the plasma pistol of slaanesh which feels like a downgrade. However the plagueknive and the plaguegrenade are not all that either. The point is that all named / special weapons for chaos outside of the plasmagun, the abbadons grace and the necrotic sword are either just a reskin, very niche focussed, even or worse compared to the regular stuff. This is intentional by design to prevent powercreep. It is not like the plague grenade is actually much worse then a posion grenade on orks. Just costs more LP ofc.
    The point is Chaos lacks anykind of real stuff or unique stuff over the other factions. The marks were an attempt to do so by trying to give bigger advantages combined with drawbacks to equalize their value. This failed once the meta was changed.

    And since the threadtitle asked for it, the last balance patches as a whole brought no real new options for chaos or changed anything on our playstyle. Most of the new toys get funneled into LSM and these toys dont come with a drawback or a mark attached to it. Even opening completely new theoretical playstyles. Grav not as a solo rambo but someone who slows for the team. Servoskull beeing a very strong buff formerly reserved to supportclasses now opened up to be common among the most played class. Giving the Apoth the option to be nearly equal to a warlock in melee. While LSM still has named weapons like their heavy bolter or the lascannon which do outshine their regular variant. If you compare that with the little our new toys do its not really worth bickering which one of our crappy toys is actually in itself less worse then the rest compared to "theirs".

    From a company kind of view it is completely understandable why things are the way they are. Would you rather spend your designtime on something 50%+ (twinks) of your playerbase will enjoy and create a token item for the 25-15% factions or would you do the reverse most likely upsetting the majority cause they had a round without cool new toys? This is the reason why many broken things of the minor factions dont get fixed quickly. Not because they hate them or because they dont see it as a problem but because fixing them would actually require a time investment to fix the underlying problems. Like we see in the discussion of this thread, or have seen with the ace dakka, or with the lack of eldar mods. The problem was there but it happens only so few times that its not high on the to fix list.
    Ecaja and Gravewalker like this.
  2. Valrack Valrack07 Preacher

    "The khornbolter and the Manyslayer are decent." a Heavy bolter who dosen't supress it's a a weapons for assault not support and it's not logic a HB dosen't supress, "Look brothers a red heavy bolter, we know no fear !" and for the other HB they know the fear ? I have laught a lot for this.. and for the Manslayer it's like the chainaxe is too slow, you take the chainsword it's easymod beside it serisously. Be slow with a PF or the maul why not but with a axe it's a joke, a axe it's most offensive weapon and a sword is the most for parade or duel.
    Deathmongers and BruvvaThomas like this.
  3. melee weapons in general are gonna be revised...it's ridiculous that they bring out a patch that buffs range and at the same time screw over melee classes. that is just asking for inbalance.
    as part of assymetric balance..chaos should have an edge on melee.
    as how it stands sm have even a faster weapon than a chainsword (the duelist blade) with 150 durability!
    weapons like that do even damage to your opponent while clanging and break heavy weapons faster than if you survive long enough..if you have even slower weapons even a knife does damage during a clang.

    change will come regardless, it has been announced...they're probably tweak the stats to compensate
    Valrack07 likes this.
  4. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    Like i said, decent not outstanding. The heavy bolter is okay and you can make it - like any other weapon with the mark- work. It has more ammo, it is a heavy weapon it lack supression. The manslayer suffers from the melee problem currently all Axes, Maces and PF have. Swords are too good compared to them. This is not a chaos problem nor a problem with the item manslayer but a general balance one. The weapon itself with the lifesteal is fine if they would fix the melee problem: light weapons vs heavy weapons. Like some other poster above me said already, it is in the cards - they are working on it. The slaanesh pistol however.... That will be very hard to salvage.
  5. Aceryl Aceryl Menial

    Again....a particular mark which i won't name...Doesn't have any dedicated weapons.
    this mark dedicated weapons are the most interesting to implement with more possibilities....but whateves...
  6. Tremor BlackGoo Subordinate

    Maybe we should just BUFF the other marks and not nerf the only usefull one ?
    Gravewalker and DrDooManiC like this.
  7. Do you feel like you are at a disadvantage without Mark of Nurgle?
    Yes?
    Well, you are goddamn right!
    Agree, the other Marks need to be more viable
  8. The issue I see is that since MoN is pretty much the baseline choice, CSM can be almost universally built against by Plasma weapons. Indeed, I see them a lot more often these days on what I assume are guild stacks since we have no way to tell right now.

    I'd really like to see an actual Undivided mark that provides pure benefits for a higher cost, kind of like the options of other factions. Right now the stand in we have is just kind of dull. Options between armour, health, toughness and armour with regen would be nice but I'm not really a numbers guy so I wouldn't like to give examples in case of balance disruption.
  9. Nosfantor Recruit

    Something like Mark of Chaos Undivided 150pts: +10 health +10 armor +10% armor regen +10% stamina regen +10 toughness. Overall of good value but doesn't really allow you to min/max any particular attribute.
  10. Shiani Brujah Preacher

    Tzeentch needs its health penalty gone, because Tzeentch is the Sorcerer God and Sorcerers, being healers, suffer doubly from reduced health (as their ability to heal their own health is impaired by having a lower total health).

    I wouldn't be against Tzeentch sacrificing some of their total armour in order for the smaller pool to regenerate faster.
    Zarbustibal likes this.

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