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Can we have a honest talk about the Mark of Nurgle?

Discussion in 'Chaos Space Marines' started by Ecaja, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. pinky EternalPink First Blood!

    I'm not sure I understand the logic going on here, MoN is so popular as the benefits of the other marks are not very significant/worth it so we want to make the mark that is popular worse so that people use other marks?

    MoK - life steal is so small it will not help you keep going (once upon a time life steal via weapon mod was overpowered and if you could keep attacking you could keep tanking/healing - to my knowledge never happened on MoK)

    MoS - movement speed increase, doesn't allow you to compete with elder as you would expect and only really of a benefit to melee players which are now in decline due to the advantages ranged have in melee

    MoT - faster armor regen as I recall which I've heard people say is good on raptor but as raptors are now a rarity due to the range/melee issue less popular, was good on ranged once with the flag as you got extra damage but i'd think now any extra damage is countered by you dying faster with the health debuff

    Steel shard - found this quite good on a melee character so maybe the one other sort of mark to use except it has 210 LP cost so is more expensive than MoN

    Instead of changing MoN to make it worse making the other marks worth using is a better solution (seems a regular theme on these boards to make something worse so people will use other stuff)
    Gravewalker likes this.
  2. IshanDeston Ecaja Steam Early Access

    I think that is a good summery, but my reason to make the thread was not to propose a fix... my reason to start the thread is starting a discussion on the subject and hearing peoples opinions on how to fix it. My opinion on the matter isn't more or less valid than the next CSM player.

    And all Eldar are Exarchs and all LSM are sergeants and all CSM are Champions.

    Your run of the mill CSM doesn't exactly gain favor with the gods. I don't need it to be down to the last letter of the universe, but there is a point where stuff stops being CSM and being just LSM by a different name with spiky bits.

    Nor would it be fair to the other factions, nor would i want that. I don't need the toughness bonus. And i don't need to run around with 150-160 toughness. I am perfectly fine with MoN giving toughness as its bonus. What i am not fine with is that all the other marks have a downside, while MoN's is pretty much negligible, and that all the goodies are with MoN.

    I sort of agree... and sort of don't. I think MoT wouldn't be so bad if it converted that HP into Armor. You'd still have less armor and would have to rely more on cover, but it wouldn't reduce the overall hit pool, that seems to be balanced on the idea of how fast a CSM can move. I actually would go as far as to convert 50% of the health into Armor.

    To sum it up and bring it to a point:
    I like @KorgasTheReforged suggestions and I don't care if people agree with my take on how to fix this. More important to me is that we find something we can agree on and the fact that it gets fixed. And then maybe get a dev in here to talk about making it happen, because the situation as it is.. is not enjoyable.

    And give the other marks goodies, but yes that was my idea.... i assume whoever of the Devs came up with these ideas balanced them against whatever metric they have. I like to believe that they didn't put up a dart board and threw darts at it, selecting randomly what they give these marks.

    Personally i think it would be easier to say "lets change this one down side for another downside, and then focus on giving the other marks unique goodies" than going "really this one mark is fine with barely any downside, and we want the other marks also to have no real downside as well".

    Really? I have yet to see that decline. Each and every game i play has more than 50% of Melee Classes around. Maybe i am just incredibly lucky/unfortunate (depending on how you want to look at it)... then again, of course if i listen to people on this forum its pretty much that melee players are like the Wolpertinger of Eternal Crusade now.

    As i said in the havoc thread, i like it on my Heavy Bolter Havoc for siege defenses. If you have a Sorcerer to heal you, the brief lul in battle is all you need to get all your armor back.

    Is imho a more realistic approach than to advocate to make something potentially OP.
    KorgasTheReforged likes this.
  3. pinky EternalPink First Blood!

    Each to there own, an approach that makes everything equally worthless just means that people won't equip a mark and will spend the 150 LP elsewhere to my mind and OP compared to what? we don't fight each other outside of the garrison so the marks need to be balanced for the advantage they give verse the races we fight who have there own advantage from there own racial bonus'/abilities

    So as I said increase the marks people don't use so people will use them rather than advocating a race to the bottom
    LordSloth likes this.
  4. Khornatian Khornatian Steam Early Access

    Just have faith and

    Sir_Dikkels likes this.
  5. When you think about it...

    Orange Armor gives 20 Armor and 20 Toughness for : 250 LP
    Mark of Nurgle gives 20 Health and 30 Toughness, -60% Stamina (barly ever relevant) : 150 LP

    My Nurgle-Sorc runs round without Armor and dayum does he feel tanky, while my slaneesh-sorc with orange armor dies much too fast
    Ecaja likes this.
  6. Great points. If the devs agree that Undivided using Mark of Khorne is not full Khornate, maybe they can fix it.

    Mark of Khorne is really fun in terms of roleplay, but it's quite anti-teamwork in a team-based game. This is the only thing I can think of in the game that invalidates a role completely. That role being Support. It needs work.
    Ecaja and Caentyr like this.
  7. Dharchaon81 Dharchaon81 Arkhona Vanguard

    MoN @Traitor/Heavy class

    MoS @Raptor/Assault class

    MoK @Raptor/Assault class

    MoT @Sorcs class

    For every class there seems to be a perfect fit.

    Pre-1.3 I used to play my Raptor with MoN, you all should know why.
    Nowadays its more than useless for my playstyle and the whole class itself.
    Need run-speed and +fuel-regen, anything else feels like perma-death.
    Maybe situational changes, but I dislike having 4 Raptor loadouts.

    I prefer some kind of "undivided Mark", which maybe could fit into every class with a little benefit.

    But lets be honest, would they make a change on this, really?
  8. Belphegor LordSloth Preacher

    You have a sharp eye my friend. You are comparing a "chest slot" item which is harmonized against other "chest slot" items with a Wargear 1 slot item. Which is, wait for it, harmonized against other WG1 items!

    Orange Armor = Red LSM Armor = Red Ork Armor - all similar all same LP ballpark check.
    MoN = Rusty or Iron Gob = Seal of the Medicae - all similar in how much survivability they actually add (and i dont mean the numbers but to what those numbers lead to) all same LP ballpark check.

    Last but not least your terrible exaggeration (?) about playing a MoN Sorc vs MoS Sorc. Apparently that green glow has a mighty confidence placebo effect on you or are you shitposting because the stats dont back your claims up.

    Both variants require exactly 9 regular Boltgun shots to the chest to leave you coughing blood. For the sake of the argument you could even drop the MoS and go just naked in WG1 with only red armor and have the same result.

    Oh and btw the same happens if you ram your tacticals boltgun into an apoth with only grey armor and a single 30 HP Seal or an apoth with only red armor. 9 rounds. The Painboy with a rusty gob needs those 2 health trinkets (paying just 130 LP in total) and to get the same result compared to your variant and is dead even with red armor (tho he only pays 240 LP for it). You are welcome.
    Gravewalker and Oan-Mkoll like this.
  9. IshanDeston Ecaja Steam Early Access

    Only way to know is to establish that there is a consensus and then ask.

    If we all can just get out of this thread agreeing on the fact that there should be something done, then i think that would be a good step in the right direction.
  10. So you want to nerf something that works well because the other options are weaker? Surely the answer then is that the underperforming Marks need to be brought up to MoN's level instead of them all being lackluster. I'm all for more build variety across the board in EC and as soon as MoK isn't a liability I'll use it.

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