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Can a daemon turn good? Hmmmmm!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by FarseerDaneel, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. A daemon will never do things for reasons we as biological beings understand, but a benevolent daemon is within the realm of reason.

    Tzneetch for example is a god of many things, like Hope, so a Tzneetchian Daemon of Hope is a possibility, and would by nature want to foster and grow its patrons hopes, which could quite easily be benificial to them (or a scheme to lead them to ruin, you never know with daemons)

    But yeah, daemons are the product of the mass outpouring of emotions, usually negative, and as such have potential to encompass any powerful motivation/emotion/etc so that means they can potentially be "good*"

    *by 40k standards
    Galen likes this.
  2. Kaptin Primorkagorka DaKaptin Well-Known Member

    Potentially, but not fer certain. Even Plauge bearers love people, dey love dem ta deaff!
  3. Well then we fall back to the aforementioned problem with this discussion, how do you define good?

    That Nurgle daemon just wants you to be joyous for all eternity in Nurgle's loving embrace, to him he's like Santa Claus dolling out his gifts to the world around him. Further conveluting it is the fact that Nurgle daemons don't need to make a conscious decision to do harm to a human, they'll infect them just by being close and may feel genuine sorrow when mortals die in agony after rejecting Nurgle's "blessings."

    Now, a Khorne daemon is much simpler, they seek to harm virtually any being they come across and are fed by its bloody demise, so it can easily be considered evil because it's an active threat and only aspires to be an active threat. However, is it possible for a complex daemon of Khorne, one enamored in martial pride and glory, basically a war god of old, not one like how Aries is often reviled as a God of Strife, but from the viewpoint of Mars as a God of Glorious Conquest.

    In 40k, your goals will always come into conflict with anothers, and by their views you will be considered evil. Thereby, I think the only way to weigh good and evil appropriately is by scale. At a base level, if you are actively trying to improve your followers' lot in life, that could be considered a good guy (as say, an Archon is only concerned with the well-being of their minions as much as it takes for them not to turn on their leader, as such DE don't qualify as good by any scale) Next, does your actions (or at least motivations) benefit the civilian population over the long run, ie, does it create a stable society your followers and those they care about can survive in.

    So basically, the only real way to measure goodness in 40k is purely subjective, 1) Does what you are trying to do help your followers or is at least supposed to, and 2) Does it benefit your subjects or those you conquer/liberate. By that metric, a Daemon can be good because it is possible for a daemon to make things better for those on its side(it's also possible for them to be in it entirely for their own benifit and plan on consuming their followers souls, thereby not good) but a Tyranid is not good because a follower can only ever expect to be consumed and subsumed by they Hive Mind. You see, while a daemon cult can hope to overthrow a Planetary Tyrant and possibly replace them with a benevolent master, a genestealer cult can only ever hope to bring the total extermination of their own planet. So while both may do evil deeds, 1 at least has the potential to make things better for the survivors and perhaps even the civilians that never wanted to get involved.
    FarseerDaneel and Galen like this.
  4. Ascendant Azathoth Well-Known Member

    Well, some Daemons exist that aren't bound to the Chaos Gods, and are rather Daemons of Chaos Undivided. Some Daemons even predate the birth/awakening of the 4.

    A great example of these primordial daemons is Balphomael, the Horned Darkness.

    This, combined with other theories on the nature of Daemons, may suggest that the entirety of the Warp is, in fact, a massive, gestalt consciousness, or Chaos Undivided made manifest.

    If Chaos is in fact a unified whole, then Daemons would be incapable of doing "good" things by our standards, since the sole desire of the Warp is, apparently, to devour the Material Universe in an eternal abyss of Chaos.

    Or at least, that's my interpretation.
  5. DJPenguin DJPenguin Cardinal

    Going with pokemon logic on this one. If the owner is evil so is the Poke'.
  6. Energy tends not to be considered good or evil, the same energy (nuclear) can be used to power a metropolis or destroy one.
  7. Kaptin Primorkagorka DaKaptin Well-Known Member

  8. FarseerDaneel FarseerDaneel Well-Known Member

    I was thinking about this a lot today.. there is a lot of semi-lore out there about how when humans pray to the Emperor it makes him stronger over time; same with Roboute's wounds. So those are positive things... for the negative since they have no focus in the warp (ie The Emperor) then perhaps they are just going to be negative to the core... then again, given intellect and free will I don't know why one would side with the endgame of disorder. It's not really for certain that the chaos gods actually create anything... granted their palaces/realms in the warp but are those creations or reflections and corruptions of things already created by real-space beings?

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