Space Marines are meant to be flexible. Apothecaries use Bolters on TT and in Lore. Any argument to the contrary is idiotic. Don't like it? Too bad, go yell into your pillow. This conversation is now over. If you want to ask to remove Bolters from Apoths, prepare to see me sprout up more threads about removing the extra Melta from Fire Dragons. Your choice baby-boy.
Also hypocrisy at his finest. The principle of superiority in a domain to compensate lack of capacity in another domain (the superiority in the latter being the privilege of another being) is asymmetrical balance. Caster is not being taking in count since only the result count. Also being a Caster being more a disadvantage, it doesn't run in your "way" of balancing. And your statement on my argument being "Look at the miserable Dok" just show that you did not read a thing about what I wrote. By balancing the whole support part, it will bring them all in line, while letting them keeping their asymmetrical advantage. And by balancing (I must repeat myself for you because you can't read shit) it mean small nerf and buff dispatched between those who need them, not HUGE DOK BUFF to put him in line with Apoth. Blaming Ad hominems, but using it yourself, what does it make you? An hypocrite. A big one, like this pile of shit. "You can now remove your bolt/shuriken pistol from your loadout to (finally) allow you to build any combination (still limited by 2 slots and spell locked on those) with your (over expensive?) spell." What a buff, god (which one?) bless Eternal Crusade. It's something, I agree, but it's not something you can call ground breaking as it was just a normal thing to do as Warlock/Sorcerer were not free to use their spells like they wanted. I'm against a simple boltgun removal on Apoth (because it's plain dumb and is a simple BIG NERF), but in the other case, since "Caster" (like you like to call them) have to specialize themselves with 2 spells slots, then they should be allowed to have a REAL impact in offense if they decide to sacrifice their heal/buff capacity for it. And it's not my 101 balancing, stop making assumption like that because you don't have arguments left, THAT is pathetic. PF is unusable because it's simply bugged with RPS. It does not rely on it anymore and more on a combination of luck/ping/Tzeench's will. On the other side, PF could fight as the same speed than a lighter melee weapon and it was a problem due to their tremendous damages. They can also do AV duty. But a lot of people "forget" this advantage to whine about the PF. An increase in damage dealt to vehicle could serve as a balance patch. The devs not knowing how to balance the PF with the RPS system, excluded it from it. Simple but brutal for PF only users. Example on W40k SM: Power hammer user had the damage but not the speed, so they could be countered by skilled power/chainsaw sword user (much faster weapon, but dealing less damage). But how do you really implement speed on a RPS system where attack interrupt the opponent attack? That's the principal question with the PF.
Because some folks too butt hurt from apo putting a narth up their holes while at same time using bolter to trim a bonsai tree leaves to show their skills others too upset people want to remove their ability to trim a bonsai tree with a bolter by removing the bolter.
Wow this board is so toxic and full of biased LSM haters that no game dev in their right mind would listen. You wanne take the only good thing the Apoth has from him? Seriously? The one that has to awkwardly walk up to allies and hope they don't move while you poke them, not mention you get killed if you attempt to do so in combat. AOE is not exclusive to LSM so listing that as an advantage is pure biggotry. Literally the only good argument here in hundreds of posts is that the Orks need a buff for their painboy. Everything else is BS made up by mostly irational salty elfs. I've been using the sorc since the start of the LSM campaign so I know for a fact how convenient their heal can be, hide in a corner and heal the guys that are under fire. Makes them frickin hard to kill and you don't need to dance around a healing vial, you can actually move around. Edit: though I' like to get a few more equipmentpoints for all supportclasses (and melee)
Personally, I think the Sorc and Painboy need to be brought up. There's no reason for them to all be weak. I wouldn't mind a boltgun apoth if the other supports had an offensive option as well. Outside of that though I think some have talked about why not just make it a standard boltor with no mods.
