You mean the Ticklar Cannon on the Falcon?

Yeah..that thing is....sad to say the least. I took 15 shots with it to a Quadgun on Harkus last night, I barely even noticed the HP bar move.

Shot a Pred 5 times in the back armor, I took off maybe 5% of it's health in the time that it took off 25-30% of mine heh.

I know right its not like i didnt mention in that very post that if LSM and CSM had razorbacks which is our version of the waveserpent that vehicle would be over performing like the serpent in the patch but no its just me being a typical hypocritical LSM trying to nerf eldar for the sake of nerfing eldar in there eyes.

No, the razorback is the SM version of the falcon (upgraded weapons and reduced transport capacity). Eldar have better vehicles, sorry.

Maybe you'll get land raiders at some point, then you'll feel superior. And hey, I support razorbacks.

I agree with Asheru on this one. The Eldar tanks help define the faction and right now the wave serpent embodies what the Eldar should be.

Also, maybe this will teach the SM's to not half man their tanks and waste them because they expect the main gun (s 7) to out dps 2/ twin linked ( s 6) weapons that fire literally 3x faster (on TT too). They also have almost exactly the same armor. You're also forgetting that the wave serpent actually will eventually have shields - and even this can be used as a weapon. On top of all of this, I'll restate what Asheru said, even the Wave Serpent gets an awesome array of battle tank weaponry. The Wave Serpent ISN'T just a Transport, it's another battle tank. That's what the critics don't understand - when you fight against the Eldar, a Wave Serpent isn't all that different from a Falcon. The biggest difference is that the Falcon has a better weapon by default, can become armed with the same weaponry as a Serpent, AND THEN get even better stuff.

So if you're honestly expecting true balance to happen here, don't hold your breath - Eldar tanks are VASTLY better than any of the other races currently represented in the game.

What everyone forgets is that we're earning tokens at the end of each of our games. It's been stated before Vehicles have a cost to deploy, and Eldar tanks are the most expensive out of all of them. So there you go. Even predators can get hurt by these tanks, but our tanks cost way more to use so we can't lose them.

Balance. /thread.

Seeing as the falcon is a anti tank that would make the equiv of a Razorback going with lasguns while the waveserpent is the equivilent of the razor back with heavy bolters because dont forget the razor back is a modified rhino hull same as the pred.

For all the eldar saying asymmetrical balence fine you want your tanks to be superior fine then what is eldar weak at fighting Space marines on foot? being a dying race therefore not being able to deploy as many people?

Unless there is a hard cap on how many you can deploy cost cannot balecne stuff properly many games have tried and all have come down to grind up to a PVP ship then engage in PVP there is no point in using something that is not effective.

If a eldar tanks are ment to be twice as good as a SM equivalent then SM should be able to deploy twice as many of there inferior tank with the same amount of people crewing that it requires for the full eldar tank team.

Or of course we could make the eldar weak in some other way like saying sure they got good tanks but cant win a fight on the ground but i got a funny feeling that the eldar wouldnt not be OK with this.

Heres a better idea how about they try and balance the game fairly becuase to say one race is simply better is not asymmetrical balence that would be if the eldar had a distinctive disadvantage and needed a advantage to make up for it.

First.

Slow down. Stop your hyperbole. Almost nothing in the game is twice as strong as anything else. The Eldar tanks are no exception. They take damage like anything else.

Second.

I'm not about to tell you how to beat them, fight them, or otherwise even engage them. You're going to have to figure that out on your own with your team.

Third

Fair balance. Well, you tell me how Bolters have somethihg like 80 pen, SMs have 120 T and 140 Armor while Dire Avengers have 80 T, 100 Armor and Shurikens have 60 pen and the CSMs have nearly double all of that, with T3 and T4 weapons galore. How plasma still have no downside. How AS can set people on fire, mass resurrect, and spit a jinx debuff onto a target and then kill it with the exact same spell, a shield bro can face tank a reaper launcher, or an Ork Loota can rapid fire plasma.


I'd love to say that the Eldar aren't good on the ground but so far MYST and a lot of the games I've been in has proved otherwise. That being said, I rarely see games between us and another guild, and I've seen a lot of pugs lose. Eldar are difficult to play, but are rewarding when done right.

In closing, our tanks exemplify this. They are flimsy. They do die in 2-3 hits from a lascannon. But god help you if you think you can out gun / out play an Eldar when they're being played right.

There will certainly be a hard cap on the amount deployed at once. It will probably be identical to what we have now. It's fairer to ask that all vehicles not get shredded by non-AV heavy weapons like the heavy bolter/deffgun/shurken cannon. It's fine if Eldar have superior armor if it costs more to deploy. Everyone should just get solid bang for their buck--or in this case tokens.

I'd also like predators to have more punch to their autocannons with a reduced RoF. I'm not a lore hound and I can't find any info on the RoF for their autocannon, but if the RoF were to be tied to the number of players manning the vehicle, there would be more incentive to fill them up completely. I don't like pointing to Dawn of War 2 often, but this video highlights how I personally feel a predator should act. Notice the recoil of the gun, the weight of the explosion (which I could live without since the current explosion is sufficient), and all those juicy details. It would certainly make vehicles more enjoyable if they all had something similar to this. Right now, tanks feel too static and don't feel potent against other vehicles.

The bright lance is actually an option for the falcon, in a similar vein to how the razorback can be kitted out for different roles. They also (tt wise) are both 6 model transports (half squad). The wave serpent is a twelve model transport (full squad). The real eldar tank is probably the fire prism.

I'm still a proponent of giving rhinos the two firing points they're supposed to have, as well as changing the vehicle timers between factions.

As for the infantry disadvantage, I would say the eldar are disadvantaged by the SM's versatility. SM have a range of engagement profiles and distances between bolt, plasma, and melta across two ranged classes, plus the ultra range of stalker bolter and lascannon, and the options to their melee classes. This isn't about class vs class balance, it's about team profile balance. If a SM army rushes vehicles aggressively, they can force eldar out of anti-infantry builds and into anti-vehicle opening up firefight superiority. Conversely, the same attempt by eldar can be responded with wide spread plasma, countering vehicles and infantry.

This is all very meta, meaning subjective. Concepts like threat generation and team response don't show up a lot, nor does the total vulnerability of armour in built up urban environments. They're vague and very vulnerable to bias. From my experience, as an eldar player I'm very vulnerable to counter classes and tactics, the wave serpent provides threat capability on a squad level that I can fall back on. As an SM player of both stripes, I never find myself challenged to meet an enemy with my infantry builds. I will always have the option to engage and potentially win.

... Where are you getting these numbers? The boltgun and ASC share the same 80 pen and are pretty comparable in damage (although there are other factors at play I think, the TLASC is probably a 200 LP tax to be able to effectively DA), and base the SM capture class only has +20 toughness on the DA. The DA does get stiffed on his gold armour, but he's not totally off balanced, and CSM are not nearly double on anything. Query?

So the first part of what you're saying is mostly what I agree with anyway. On a Meta level the Eldar function differently.

As to the numbers, it was all from memory (on my phone both now and then), since I prefaced it with "something like", meaning that lore abiding SMs are built tougher, and still have capable weapons for almost every range - as they're supposed to. But the Eldar are still in flux in terms of development - as you already know since the best weapon for a DA is undoubtedly the TLSC. It's almost mandatory to even compete and it forces the Eldar to play at dangerously close ranges - which makes the difference in numbers, whatever they actually are, significant in the infantry game. I'm not saying the Eldar T or armor needs a raise, or the SMs damage be reduced, but it does play a major part in how the Eldar play.