It's because lascannons are not nearly as efficient at blowing up vehicles as a meltgun+bomb build. The meltabomb+gun builds are also more likely to get the last hit on the vehicle compared to lascannon. If the AV weapon was a meltagun in the CSM/LSM starter package, we would see more of them. (or possibly need to beef up the xp for blowing up vehicles again; we saw lots and lots of meltaguns when it was easy to get 10k exp per match running anti-tank builds). The only time I will take a lascannon is when there are turrets to take down. I main a CSM meltagun+bomb MoS character. I think that firedragons have the edge right now because there isn't really a delay in the amount of time it takes to drop their second meltabomb. When I play Eldar, I play as firedragon (with 2 meltabombs) when AV is needed and dire avenger when I want to kill things. Another factor in all of this is the lawnmower affect. Here is what I think needs to happen: 1) get rid of roadkill by Eldar vehicles entirely. It is pretty easy to take out an entire squad when they run from point to point, and that is frequent after the firedragons have done their job. 2) Either take away the second meltabomb option or add a significant delay to being able to place the second one. I'd say 3 seconds. It would need to be long enough so that you'd want to shoot the vehicle with meltagun rather than place the second bomb. The second bomb would still be useful for situations where there are multiple tanks to hit. This change would put the fire dragon in line with the MoS CSM meltagun+bomb option, and the firedragon would still be slightly better at it. These two things would drastically change the battlefield IMO. It would still be difficult to protect your rhino from a fire dragon (while it is parked in the spot that you need it), but it would at least be possible. This means that 1) enemy vehicles would last longer (so more mobile spawns) and 2) after mobile spawns are all destroyed doesn't instantly mean that the enemy has lost the game. If you wanted to stop them from getting to the point, you'd have to use the Eldar classes that we should be balancing the faction around. I definitely agree that Eldar are the masters of both mobile spawns and anti-tank (outside of fortress maps). On another note, when I play as Eldar on a fortress map, I have no idea how we are supposed to be accomplishing certain things. E.g. Agnatheo B point. which classes are we supposed to use to dislodge the infinite gun lines? I don't think I have the missile launcher thing for Dark Reapers (so nothing similar to plasmacannon) and I am personally not able to distract the gun line as well with a swooping hawk as I can with a JPA (and I honestly suck with JPA). I think these two areas are where Eldar need buffs.
Sure as soon as a single meltabomb + quarter fusion gun burst blows up a Rhino as fast as it blows up a wave serpent, than they can remove the 2nd bomb or make this change
If you aren't open to things being nerfed, then other things aren't going to get buffed when your faction has the highest win rate. If that's fine with you, it's fine with me.
This thread is funny. Whats stopping any of the other factions from running 2-3 AV guys like the eldar do? Is it the overabundance of weapon options for them? People go dedicated AV as eldar because its easy RP/XP. Same as i do for any of the other factions. The only difference is usually more eldar players are switched on to the fact that killing transports wins matches
The Reaper Launcher actually works similarly to what Orks do in that situation, just harder to pull off due to the lack of accuracy and shorter timeframe of which you can peek before the Autocannons destroys you. On the flipside, the guidance system can be used to counter the suppression effect and curve it sideways/downwards, experience needed.
Nothing, and I don't have a problem doing it in any faction. Fire dragons are still the best at it, because they only need 1 second (estimated) to blow up any vehicle. On the flip side, play against coordinated groups with both eldar and non-eldar as a dedicated driver. It's much harder to protect your transports when playing as other factions. It's not a game breaking thing. However, the purpose of the thread is to determine why Eldar have the highest win rate despite obvious underpowered aspects to the race. e.g. the dark reaper compared to plasmacannon havoc/dev. Although I have to try out @SakitPerut 's suggestion to know for sure, I see a lot of complaining about the dark reaper (from eldar players). If it is true that the waveserpent and fire dragons are the cause of the disparity, the evidence would be that Eldar win a lot more skirmishes and lose on fortress maps more often than other races. I don't know if that data exists anywhere. I think most people would prefer to have equal footing regardless of map rather than be overpowered on most maps and be underpowered on others. (again, not to a game breaking extent; I win most matches regardless of which faction I play as.)
I agree with that hypothesis. In a more fluid game, a coordinated Eldar side will win more often, but not pugs. Pugs tend to lake the coordination needed to win, so I'd put them at 50/50. Fortress maps are our bane. Eldar are not designed to fight that type of battle. Our ranged weapons are not as accurate and Eldar can't stand in the open for long enough with their weapons that are (one shot missile launcher). Eldar can put up a decent defence, but suck when they have to attack into fortress points. Overall I don't think Eldar are winning more games than the other races, since the nurf. I'd like to see the data on this of cause. We need to see the data for this from before and from after the nurf.
Look at all those weekly report on the forum. The F2P fever is gone so Eldar took back their rank and their victory ratio. Everyone fall on the conclusion that with new players on both side, Eldar had a hard life. "Eldar OP" thread are probably incoming. But it only prove once again that eldar win due to an experienced player base. Eldar have dedicated player to tank hunt and since our loadout mechanism is "extremely specialized class", it's normal that our FD can kill tank with efficiency. But the thing that trigger me is when a race having the same amount or more AV tools ask for a FD nerf when at first they don't guard their dedicated respawn point. When I guard my god damn rhino, I put my ass behind it and wait. A FD want to drop a melta? Light attack to interrupt him. Each time I see people slacking inside the turret to protect the rhino... that's not how you do it.
From my (limited) personal experience on Eldar teams lately: I see a trend for less braindead zerging and actual proper class rolling (for example people switching off from FD or Lock when they notice there are a few around already or switching to that class when there seem to be none). Locks in general still tend to be too eager to fight but that will come in time I guess. Still a load of Dark Reapers around when they aren't needed but that too will come in time I bet. In regard to the thread: AV and Fire Dragons - Is this one class THE reason why Eldar win so many matches? - Yes, and it's the only way they can win matches outside of the opposing team being completely derp Eldar can't slug things out on equal numbers. They by their balancing nature have to flank and outnumber (on small scale) in order to decide fights for them. Since in defense situations, you can't really run and surrender ground. The only way to hold the ground is to ensure that the respawn of the opposing team has to run a long distance so the pressure lessens and the travel distance by it's nature pulls the enemy team apart so they trickle into the defensive line. If you ever solo defended a point as a scorp, you'll instantly feel what that means On the flipside, the same problem is true for the Eldar and hits them even harder (again due to how things are balanced). If you force the Eldar team to run long distances by taking out the serpents, you get trickling Eldar which die even faster than the other factions.
Well I think it's due to people doing LSM copycat. I see a lot of run and gun heavy boltor to breach. They don't understand that it doesn't work well as Eldar with the Shuriken Canon.
