Not really. The nature of the Imperium is extremely authoritarian, what I said about questioning those above you is in fact a severe crime, in the Enforcer series there's an incident where a priest accuses a senior Arbite of a miscarriage of justice, her response was that if the priest were anyone else she'd have been required by law to execute him immediately. This is due to the top down nature of Imperial society, there is no accountability to those below you, so in practice they can mistreat them to their hearts content. If an Imperial Governor chooses to rule as an iron fisted tyrant your only hope is that one day the Inquisition comes to town, and doesn't decide you're the problem for questioning the status quo. Because it would also be a crime to criticize your Planetary Governors rule. And don't even try to pretend Heresy isn't both broadly defined and heavily punished. Yes actions speak louder than words, and the Emperor sending his self-prophessed executioners to capture someone they held a grudge against sends quite a statement. If he understood his father he'd know he was a tyrant who would have tightened his grip as his control of the galaxy firmed, betraying undesirables such as Magnus after their usefulness in building his Empire diminished. That is because you are blind.
That as it may you are being (as previously stated) overly pessimistic. Given the setting that it is trial is an elaborate right and it is only natural to have it reserved for Imperial Culists and administrators. It is quite justified. Its good that used an example where an Arbite is involved.Because if the crime drawsn notice of the Arbitrators then all even loosely connected with the case should be under suspicion. As for the misconducts and abuses of positions of power...I don't think problems of a worthless individual should be a concern at all in an empire that is Imperium. Actually unless there are purges or Chaotic incursions Imperial Law does not even pay any notice to the citizenry at all.Common man should be more afraid of the local police force then an Arbitrator units given that the confederacy that Imperium is, it pays little heed to the smallest cogs as long as they pay their due in tithes and in faith. They may as well govern themselves. The cause justifies the deed as long as cause In itself is justifiable.Tyrant or not. Tyrant?You use that word in such a bad connotation... In duty there are no room for personal feelings.Space Wolves were send to censure Thousand Sons because they are the most loyal of His servants, mot because they had a "grudge" with them.Its a Legion not a kindergarden.At least it was... As for Magnus he deserved censure.A being that is able to behold a higher-dimensional beings, understand greatest mysteries of the universe...yet unable to contain its own curiosity is rather appaling.The way he "cured" his Legion was also remarkable stupid for a man such as him. One day...you will realize that smacktalk is not an argument. I merely responded to his presumptuous post about myself.
The ends do not justify the means, the means can be evil regardless of the result, and the result is not very good. Stagnation and oppression under an authoritarian regime. You accuse me of being a pessimist, I merely look at it for what it is, a top down approach that has zero accountability to those it actually governs. Such a system is designed in such a way that power goes to the heads of those in charge. And it does, as shown over and over again. You dismissing the individual as a little cog does little to disprove my claims of the corruption of purpose going on. It was not an argument, it was a statement. Rather hypocritical when you have twice dismissed my claims out of hand as overly pessimistic in your opening sentences. It is indeed a Legion, a Legion of self styled executioners who dogmatically enforce the will of their master, and it the wanton genocide of a loyal planet we see the problems with blind obedience. Unless you are now going to say that all those civilians also deserved to die for the crime of living on Magnus' planet. Duty will never justify exterminating an innocent planet in your own Empire. That's really not subjective, they fucked up and they fucked up bad. What is subjective is your statement that Magnus deserved what he got. Magnus was doing the same things he did to win the Emperor his Empire, and it wasn't until the work of conquest was near completion that the order for censure was enacted. This treacherous way of dealing with his subordinates is not even an isolated incident, it seems to nearly been a standard practice. Such was done to the Thunder Warriors, and I have even heard that the Emperor intended to do away with the Martian Cult itself once he could afford to betray them. I wonder how long you'd sing the tune of the ends justifying the means when it was your own values put to the torch in the name of the greater good?
Chaos marines are basically angry vets. Alot of them think "the emprah hasnt done anything for me and i've killed thousands. Meanwhile the gods actually get shit done and I only have to take out a few people to start getting bonuses? hell yea!" because of this, i dont really blame some of them. some still do go crazy and bloodthirsty, but alot just got tired of killing for a dead guy on a throne and nothing ever changing. Hell, you could say the chaos marines are just rebel marines who see some vast entity with infinite power, and know that they dont have much to lose anymore. Everyone was gonna murderfuck each other anyway so why not just use this crazy big power to come out on top? Ok youll be ugly and gross forever but youll be super strong and will be always with your other ugly and gross friends. Win-win in their minds really
You made it look like basic consequentialism! The quote was: "The end justify the means as long as the result is justifiable." meaning that the result is mostly justified if the will of the people is being accomplished even if the people do not know what they actually want, and may even go at extreme lengths to accomplish something completely at the opposite with their normal goals. The system is corrupt beyond length and the ruling class is detaching not only from the will of the people, but people themselves. Yet the system needs to be like it is, since the uneducated masses of the Imperium are nothing more then cattle.Only those of some worth get to be little cogs in the divine machine that is His realm. I have not dismissed your claims as overly pessimistic.I labeled them as such (just as you have labeled me as 'blind' before I even spoke a word with you) and went at length to elaborate as to why. Only base stupidity gets dismissed out of hand and I did not dismiss yours without reasoning (flawed as you see it), thus... i have not 'dismissed you out of hand.' Yes...Space Wolves are a Legion...well...Chapter now of self-styled executioners.They are as such because Omnissiah needs them to be as such. I don't know by what definition of duty you go for, but duty sometimes demands collateral damage,tragic as it is. And the poor folks ("mortals") that got killed on Prospero where not collateral.They were the enemy. Horus knew that Space Wolves would see them as such, and he used a loyalist tool to exterminate an innocent planet. It had a great subjective element to it.Big part of why Space Wolves were the 'gun that fired' on Prospero was that they held a grudge against Thousand Sons, and were a complete culturological,spiritual and physical polar opposite. There were many personal elements to it, and thus it was subjective.If there was no such incentive,Horus would never be able to countermand Omnissiah`s order from censure to absolute extermination of a Legion and murder of a brother-Primarch. The level of dehumanization was great even during the Great Crusade, which is perfectly normal considering the setting was fresh from post-apocalytia, thus human life (especially if there is a lot of it) does not worth much. Thunder Warriors were a cancerous tool, not subordinates, at least not in a way that we would conceive it. They were merely a tool to be used for the betterment of Mankind. Magnus fucked up.He fucked up badly.He did more damage to the future of Mankind then Horus did during six out of seven years of intergalactic civil war. Censure was very kind to him.He knew that...that's why he complied with the wishes of the Golden Throne and did not defend his homeworld,his vainglorious ideals, his people and his sons. I have no love for the Space Wolves...and much of the same to spare for my beloved Thousand Sons.Still, when things are taken into account, I stand by the perspective I have laid bare for your scrutiny. I am afraid you`ll have to keep wondering, considering i am not fan to wild fanfiction.
I am sorry you mispronounced "angry, daemonically empowered traitors". Lets not gross-oversimplify things, since a lot of the established setting gets lost in the process, and with it facts that made the setting so. Some of those poor fools (especially with current date) are just poor anarchists that got sick of a totalirian regime that lasts for ten thousand years on and off (depends on where they lived). If you look at it from that perspective...I can understand them. What I cant understand is, to choose the 'rebel side' as you put it without getting ' hands-on' information. "I am sorry sir...but does me getting rebelled against Imperial rule make me eligible to get daemonically possessed in the future and fuck generally,everything in creation?No...?Yes..?" Ignorance of their side does not justify them.It makes them even more "evil"! As for the 'dead guy'...he is such because they 'rebeled' and were unable to hold onto the base principles and ideals of their current age, when their treachery originated. Such people in modern day don't get to be vets.They get dishonorably discharged. What freedom? They either lack the insight to see its a short-term 'freedom'.One with a eternity of investment worth of damnation afterwards.In which case they are either ignorant. Or they don't lack the insight but willingly serve Ruinous Powers, in which case they are retarded, considering that even if they reach daemonhood...they`ll forever be looked down as scrubs - for all eternity - if they don't get consumed by their patron...and end up stop existing anyway despite their efforts. IF they reach daemonhood. The vaunted freedom they so long-for is a constructed set of ideas that is usually found in the lesser individuals of the established setting.
