It's not like there is a list of those who have already made it, yeah? It's basically like lottery, everyone is taking part, but only one can get the jackpot. But yet, everyone thinks he will hopefully be the one who will be the lucky one. Nevertheless, Chaos grants power. That's a fact. It is the only reason people are attracted to it, and the competition for the great prize is hard, but it the possibility is there for those who have proven their worth. To get back to the question that started this discussion: Are the chaos gods daemons? Yes, I don't see any need to disagree on that part. But are they our enemies, when we have sworn to serve them and are always fighting in their name, because we want their power and we want the daemonhood maybe one in a thousand will achieve? I think not. I think that they are very much your enemies, but for us they are either masters, or a glimpse of what we'd like to become. There is nothing about a daemon I consider my enemy.
Good, child, you are learning the ways of chaos quickly.... Perhaps too quickly... But I digress, you still have much to learn in the ways of our dark lords, which you must find out for yourself. I wouldn't consider them to be just lowly daemons, as they were born from the deaths of countless trillions of overconfident eldar... At least the great Dark Prince was. I wouldn't consider them mere daemons, but something even further, something even more powerful than we could even begin to comprehend!
just another foolish heretic thinking himself more than a mere tool to the merciless gods he serves. time will tell filth, time will tell.
Indeed, too bad we're not all loyalists so that we could know that we're nothing but tools for the merciless lords we serve, instead of having such a heretical grey area that allows us to pose such questions.
And you are but another lapdog of your long dead emperor, still waiting for your master's impossible return. It is almost sad, and many would feel sorry for you... I, on the other hand, laugh at your incompetence! Continue your beliefs, see where they bring you, but know that you had the chance to receive true rewards, from true power! You had the chance, and you rejected it... When the time comes, you shall pray for your survival, and your prayers will only be met with the end of my sword.
Well, after another episode of "Look at my faction, it's obviously bigger than yours" - maybe we should somehow return to the question of the thread, which has something to do with the morality of Chaos Space marines, their chances for redepmtion and their inability to feel regret for something they perceive is just. Happy fun times!
As I was Saying Before There is No Redemption Only Pain And Sorrow Left For The Traitor And The Heretic And Death Stalks You All The Days Of Your Pitiful Life He is Calling Your Name You Cannot Hide He Is Coming For You Damned Forever Are The Followers Of Chaos
I believe that the term 'redemption' is wrong here. 'Redemption' would imply that the Chaos Space Marines have sinned, and are in the wrong; it would imply the Empire would be in the right. Of course, fluff often directly states this, but then again, it is written from an Imperial perspective just as often. I can of course only parrot what some more eloquent members (I tip my hat to you, Son of Lorgar) wrote, but the matter of Empire versus Chaos is not a matter of Good versus Evil, but rather Nurture versus Nature, Order versus Chaos, Hierarchy versus Anarchy, and most of all, Repression versus Disinhibition. It has been stated, and is easy to observe, that the entire Warp is a caricature, a funhouse mirror, if you will, of human thinking and society. Khorne exists because humans wage war. Nurgle exists because humans stagnate. Tzeentch exists because humans decieve. Slaanesh exists because humans are greedy. In a way, the whole Emotionscape of the warp can be likened to Hobbes' human state of nature - humans are selfish and self-destructive when unchecked, need control through tyranny in order to thrive, and are constantly trying to break free from the tyrannis that results from this, overthrowing their leader and returning to their state of nature again, until someone can tyrannize them back into society again. In a way, this is present in both parties - the Empire controls man through oppression (the Leviathan, if you're familiar with this) so they do not fall to Chaos (the state of nature). In Chaos, everyone looks out for themselves, and most are out for their own gain, or at most, the profit of small groups, which are governed by a Leviathan again. Sorry if I used that theory wrong, but it seems to me that Hobbes can be applied pretty nicely here. I use the term 'Nova versus Nexus' for the comparison. Chaos is the Nova, acting outwards and following your desires, needs, and nature. The Empire is the Nexus, which means containing your feelings and desires for the sake of order. What am I trying to say with this? Neither side is good or evil philosophically, and independent of their actions. A Chaos Space Marine chose the way of Chaos, of freedom at the cost of security, following his state of nature. A Space Marine who remains loyal chooses the way of the Leviathan, of order at the cost of independence. The only sin committed by the Chaos Space Marines is treason, maybe desertion. But beyond that, Chaos is most of all a living philosophy of being alive, living day to day, and outside the dictatorship, outside the thought control, outside the Empire. There is nothing to be forgiven here, and a 'Heretic' who renounces his views before death shows naught but weakness of character, cowardice, and that he is not only disloyal to the Empire, but to his own ideals as well.
funny to hear the word lapdog comming from the likes of you. what do you think yourself to be, slave of the dark gods ? youre so sure of your own competence yet continue to dive into the bitter irony of your own words. in the end you will be used and discarded after your usefulness pales, such is the fate of all heretics.
