EDIT: Also many Chaos Space Marines worship Dark Gods who have legions of daemons with them, isnt Christianity kind of against that?
Demons. Daemons..... Much difference.......or something.... *Moves the hand across everyone's face* "There is a difference, you dont need to question it."
Honsou, this thread wasn't meant for religious recruiting, hence why I said "This is not a religious thread" in my first post, only a philosophical delving into the topic of redemption. I bring my view points, which are Christian, to the fore, for I'm a fan of Chaos Space Marines, who are my favorite faction in the Warhammer universe. I'm drawn to them, despite their evil tendencies, or rather, abundance of actions towards what many consider to be evil. I asked everyone to state whether they believe such beings are capable of redemption for whatever reasons, religious, spiritual, intellectual, moral, and so forth. I find them in need of redemption due to the fact that I believe redemption is available for all, if redemption is sought. I pity them for the pain, the doubt, the madness, the betrayal and suffering they've experienced, and I don't blame them for their fall to Chaos in most cases, for I can relate to what they've gone through. Do I see all Chaos Space Marines in the near future seeking penance for the horrors they've committed across the galaxy? No, I don't, nor do I expect it. Would I find it enjoyable to see a Chaos Space Marine find salvation through some means? Yes, I would. As I've stated countless times in this thread, I hate the Imperium just as much as anyone else who loves freedom, for they're a statist, imperialistic empire that denies liberty at every turn. I don't consider their morals equal to my own, for they're just as evil, if not more evil than the forces of Chaos. As for the daemon worshiping, it's what makes Chaos, well Chaos. They're all hellfire and brimstone, it's what they do, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the tales they weave. You're late to the party, but welcome anyway. It's good to see this kicking around as long as it has, I'm impressed.
You could have started this thread without bringing your whole religious christian background down our throats. Also, i do not welcome your so-called "call for redemption", you say this isnt a religious thread yet you bring your christian dogma into it, spewing it like a severed artery
You're attempting to bait me, and I won't take it. If anything, you've lit the torch that will no doubt attract others who are going to turn this into a massive inferno of insults, trolling, what have you. I won't be surprised if I see this thread locked tomorrow. It's been fun, and if this isn't a corpse wrapped in chains when I awaken, I'll be content.
Alright, I'm an agnostic, but I do not seek to bait anyone, and this is my idea of redemption. This is in a moral sense, and it is highly subjective. To the Imperium, of course they aren't redeemable (not talking about black shields here). However, they can achieve moral redemption. They can be all-around OK guys, and they would be redeemed, a t least in my eyes. An example of this is the Blood Gorgons. They are good human beings, who just happen to utilize chaos in their arsenal. I, some what naively, see them as a sort-of chaos Salamanders, in that they give an air of hope to this setting. They give their recruitment worlds freedom from the Imperium, and protect them as valued assets. Other war bands can do this, but they are probably not going to. However, i see most of the traitor Primarchs as being entirley justified in rebellion, so make of this what you will...
The concept of redemption by itself is complex. To redeem one must believe or have a morality, a way of life, something you pledge yourself to and then betray or fall from that path, and later attempt to come back to it, make amends. That's what redeeming is, making amends. But to make amends one must believe that what one did was "wrong" and wants to make "rights". This requires to believe in "right and wrong". But the concept of "Right and wrong" is relative, not universal, nor set on stone. It's a relative perception of individuals, a dogmatic belief instated in society through culture and education. (For example, killing is wrong, this and that is wrong, helping others getting nothing in return is right, etc). But what If you do not believe in the same "Right and wrong"? What If you don't believe in it at all. What If you believe that such things do not exist, being inventions of the human leaders to control the human herds like cattle. So they behave. Redemption is only possible If the individual agrees on the concept of "Right and wrong", has done "wrong" and wants to do "right" to "make amends". Is it possible? Sure, why not. It's up to each individual. People may change points of view over time, after some experience, after some deep thought. So yes, it is possible. SIDENOTE: Religion has nothing to do with morality in truth or this topic of redemption. Without the intend to insult anyone, religion is the fairytale told to people so they behave in a specific manner, so they are controlled and "act right" (according to that religion. I insist, right and wrong is relative, not universal). You don't need Religion to be able to redeem yourself, or others. You require a code of conduct, an "honor code". And you can have those two without religion.
Hmm. Not every traitor marine is Chaos, but the Imperium is rather unforgiving for anyone who turned against them, especially those who picked the dark powers as their new overlord. The Legionnaires are beyond forgiveness, and don't want it anyway. The cannot redeem themselves. Some individuals/chapters who more recently fell could be redeemed but usually once they go Chaos they don't return. I guess all-in-all, most of their crimes are too great to redeem them with anything but death. I did always like Cypher's fluff of him possibly going to Terra to ask The Emperor for redemption, though.
It lives! I am so happy that this wasn't locked and had the key thrown away. Aurelian, I agree with you on your viewpoint, and I agree with you as well Korphax, it is up to the individual to seek redemption, through whatever prompting he receives. I don't agree with your take on religion 100%, and there was a time in my life when I would have exploded from what I've read, but I've matured a great deal since that time. I believe that the Chaos Astartes can find redemption based on my personal experiences, and it's also due in large part to my spiritual background, which is Christian. It is my belief that anyone can find redemption, if they seek it, and I'm not claiming by belief is the utmost truth, it's simply what I believe and lead my life by. Akragth, Cypher received validation from the Emperor himself, or at least attempted to? I want to read this, if you can find a link to the resource, I'd like to read it.
