What are you trying to say in this first part?

If Raptors lost their jump pack then it would just be the Traitor Assault how it is now minus the ability to cap. Which if it goes as they stated with MoN being an accessory and equippable to any class, and equipping it to a Traitor gives you a melee weapon AND the ability to cap (how it is now) who in their right mind would put it on a Raptor to make the same thing but not have the ability to cap? You would be unique kind of special to make that choice. That, and it would be completely pointless for them to make it work that way.

Where in the world are you getting that from my post. I am saying the comparisons that people make are based on the wrong grounds. When it comes to kills and fighting effectiveness MoN take the cake against GA. The GA are more defense oriented so you can't compare who is able to get more kills or a better fighter etc. because they are different specialist. So yes MoN should be aggressive and GA should be defensive.

My problem.. is capturing points. Being able to capture a point or not has nothing to do with aggressiveness of a single unit. It really comes down to higher probability of winning matches. The more units you have that are capable of capturing a point the better chances you have of actually capture said point and WINNING. Not only that, but MoN are the single strongest units in the game WITH the ability to capture, thus giving Chaos a huge advantage which people have known now for a long time and nothing has yet been done to help fix this.

Not to say I'm fine with the huge buff to MoN, I get it they needed a buff, I agree with buffing them. It's just with the broken melee, and being unable to d-bash nurgles now which is the only true counter to them, has turned them into an unstoppable killing force, especially in groups. i PERSONALLY feel, and this is my own opinion once they realized melee was so broken they should have reduced the MoN from 2x to at least 1.4x just to make it bearable for SM until they actually fix it. I get that it's not a priority and in the grand scheme of things it isn't highly important but the moral I've seen from SM players and how many people I hear say they don't even want to play anymore until it's fixed is disheartening and not good for the community. I mean they did release a hot fix not to many days afterwards, could have included it in that but it wasn't.

When you add all this up it is a very overwhelming feel I mean you don't need anymore proof then an entire world map changing into a sea of red within HOURS of release to tell you somethings wrong and I know people don't want change and want to feel impressive with their kills using an OP class right now, but it's sad and only ruins the game in the long run being that selfish.

The current Mark of Nurgle blessed unit is a Traitor which can capture points.

The LSM have an assault unit that traded in his jetpack for a shield. Assaults can not capture.

You guys are looking at this completely wrong. Both factions only have 1 capture class it's just that the CSM are more flexible by being able to take a melee weapon instead of just ranged.

The issue right now with MoN being so good is the health increase they got being too large which they already stated is being fixed. As for the more flexible capture class? Not sure exactly what to think yet. As of now, both CSM and Orkz are planned to have melee and ranged units that can capture while LSM and Eldar just get ranged.

Melee needs to get fixed first before we can even have this discussion. When both ranged and melee are on better terms with each other we can figure out if having a melee capture unit is that big of a difference.

Yes, fixing melee should be priority number one over fixing MoN and everything else we've discussed. However that is the issue with the current state of the game. Chaos has the option of both range AND melee to capture points which is a huge advantage, again not everyone may agree but capturing points WINS games, not kills. So considering almost every capture point is in someway in a small, confined space where melee units excell, and given Chaos has the best melee unit in the game (they should) WITH the option of having range units capture, essentially 2 "units" to SM 1 is a game changer. Now throw in the broken melee, huge MoN buff and you see why the map is covered in red, no balance, whatsoever.

Yes balance is a distant thought, I agree, but the problem is and I've said this before, they should ONLY balance things that are broken, like stormbolter was. They keep playing with the balance too much and now we have this MoN issue, which IS broken and needs to be fixed. However they want to address it is completely up to them of course, but as long as the game is playable and somewhat fair, then leave it alone. The world map before this was CLOSE to 50-50, now it's a joke.

Oh I am totally aware of this. I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. All I was saying is that if the Raptor had to trade his jump pack for MoN it would be pointless when you can put the MoN on the Traitor and still cap. I am totally aware that that is why the Traitor Assault can cap and I have stated this in other threads (or maybe it was earlier in this one). Right now, it does suck but its Alpha for testing purposes and I have come to terms with it.

MoN should be less incredible amounts of health and more incredible amounts of regen. Meltas and plasma might halve the regen giving them a weakness you can exploit with the right kit.

Defense bash works fine mate, need to work on your melee. Also Stormshield is the most OP thing in the game still, their ability to withstand fire is hilarious compared to MoN. The reason matches are being decided right now come down more to coordination since I've seen chaos get stomped by more coordinated SM teams while we've had good fights with the last patch with numerous coming down to the last minute.

Also if you are going to bring the map into it how do you think chaos felt when it was the opposite? And you got a BUFF the next patch.

It's not pointless to put a Mark of Nurgle on a Sorcerer or a Raptor or a Havoc. You still need other classes besides your capture class to be effective and having extra health is always nice. Not to mention there should be at least three more blessings coming in sometime. It's an option and not a necessity.... or at least shouldn't be. Same goes with the aquillas and purity seals loyalists are supposed to get.

Anyway, glad you know what's up. Tactical marines are at a big disadvantage compared to their chaos counterparts due to the lack of melee options. They've stated that they want loyalists to be ranged focused so giving tacticals the same options seems out of the question. I think if the devs fix melee, (mainly defensive bash ) and give LSM some better guns than CSM, it could help remedy this situation.

Actually it's pretty bad right now. It misfires often. If it worked as intended reliably, yeah. It's not the only bug in the melee system either. A lot of this is why everyone is screaming MON NURF NAO. They think the class is godmode but actually the proper counters are failing far too frequently.

Defensive bash.

(when working as intended... no point discussing balance when the game doesn't work as it's supposed to)