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ADAD and You! Yes you, now what would you like to see...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Asheru, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Slough Monster Slough_Monster Arkhona Vanguard

    Where do you get this idea that we are playing a cover shooter? There is minimal cover interaction in this game. The most it does if fuck you up because it moves your character in unpredictable ways and occasionally stops you from shooting.
  2. Teef Trooper909 Recruit

    Sorry I'll correct myself..A broken cover shooter.
  3. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    it was supposed to be a tactical shooter like the division , with cover and shit but they forgot to add buffs while in cover so... its shit
  4. Atarius Atarius First Blood!

    Finding the sweet spot between usefull strafing and wierd ADAD is hard, but that is (one of many things) EC needs. The whole problem just existst, because EC has no clear goal what of shooter (tactical, cover-based, twitch) it should be. Maybe they lost their way or maybe they never had one to begin with).

    Right now, BHVR has no money left for EC, only gets a programmer to help out if @Oveur beggs really nice and makes a lot of tea. So we are stuck in a situation, where big, costly or time consuming solutions aren't possible. K.I.S.S. is the way to go. Adjust till "high-alternating Movement" (ADAD) becomes ineffcient, but constant, smooth sidemovement is still a viable option.
    Trooper909 likes this.
  5. Drakkoth Krypto Arkhona Vanguard

    what if we were to take that a step further?

    make it so that scopes can only be used instantly in cover but if you're out of cover you have to remain stationary for lets say .5 secs and if you start moving while its in use it deactivates and blooms out your sights.

    that way scopes cannot be used to reset sights while moving but in cover you can still use it to put pressure on someone that has forced you into cover
  6. I think the most enfuriating factor about ADAD from what I read is just how stupid it looks, not the mechanic itself. When the devs made the walking animations, ADAD obviously was never intended (at least animation-wise). For example, running and crouching results in a nice looking slide. If ADAD had a fitting animation like that, a lot of people probably would change their mind about removing it.

    I think a good ADAD animation might look like this:
    On direction change the characters goes a bit down into his knees while stopping, leans in the direction he's switching to and gets up to walking again. (Dunno, might look like shit as I have no idea about animations)
    Besides giving ADAD a fitting animation, this would also give a real benefit, as obviously it should change the hitbox as well. Just like the slide, this should be an animation you can't just stop (besides dodge), so an instant additional direction switch wouldn't be possible. Would be a nice feature I think.

    Sadly, animations and such changes are on the "you won't get that list". Maybe one day workshop can change that.
  7. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    it would be useless since you almost never use scope while moving...
  8. Proteus Lychoro ProteusVM Forum Beta Tester

    ahem
    Krayt likes this.
  9. Slough Monster Slough_Monster Arkhona Vanguard

    The first game play video (on unity) that I remember had no cover mechanics. Of course, that doesn't mean that they hadn't intended for this. I just can't remember ever seeing marketing along the lines of division/gears of war esc cover mechanics.
  10. Excluding heavy weapons(Heavy Bolters, Autocannon). This mostly pertains to all classes but Heavies.

    If we consider basic marksmanship principles:

    -"Bracing" against cover bonuses. We've never had proper accuracy bonuses when firing supported(leaning against cover) nor have we had noticeable or stiff enough accuracy penalties when firing from the standing position(unsupported).

    -Standing vs Kneeling. Unlike what you might find in some other shooters, firing from the standing or kneeling position in EC results in the same outcome as far weapon rise and spread. That is not how shooting works in our universe or the 40K universe.

    The more contact your body has with the ground the better your accuracy. Those are the laws of physics. Yes guys, even a genehanced Astartes will shoot much better from a static position while kneeling with three points of contact on the ground compared to when he is standing and firing unsupported. That same genehanced Astartes that has excellent accuracy while firing from a static, supported, kneeling position will have vastly reduced accuracy when traversing an uneven, crater pocked battlefield and firing on the move.

    -Weapon sway noticeably missing from EC. This is why ADAD is even an issue in EC. There's no weapon sway.

    Shooting on the move penalties are negligible and nearly non existent in EC. Weapon sway while moving and shooting with simply is not modeled. Think about that for a second. ZERO weapon sway when moving and shooting. It's not factored in at all. In addition with the exception of heavy weapons we see no noticeable weapon sway when turning quickly and aiming. Both are momentous mechanics to omit by Behavior.

    While I am a proponent of seeing some realistic weapon sway in EC, I'm not suggesting we need a +10,000 factor :eek:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcxc8Hb_UCQ

    -Weapon rise and recoil(lack there of).

    Other than what we see with most hvy weapons systems, weapon rise and recoil is nearly non existent with almost all weapon systems in EC. Weapon rise and weapon handling needs to be more prominent when not utilizing proper firing techniques.

    Proper marksmanship mechanics should be factored into the equation and the resulting increase or decrease in weapon rise and weapon spread should be more or less prominent based on whether or not the weapon is shouldered(zoomed in), whether or not the player is kneeling and whether or not the player is firing supported(bracing themselves against cover).

    -Combine all of the above = arcade like game play with most ranged weapons in EC.

    What I'd really love to see:

    1. Proper accuracy bonuses and proper accuracy penalties

    Accuracy bonus(+)
    Accuracy penalty(-)
    Neutral(0)

    A player that's not moving or "static" has a neutral status(0)


    Accuracy Penalties
    -Standing(-1)
    -Moving forwards towards your target(0)
    -Moving laterally from your target(-2)
    -Moving backwards from your target(-3) It's really too bad we dont have a chance to trip over terrain or dead bodies and fall down on our asses because that's WTF happens when you're moving backwards and try to shoot.
    -Hip Fire(-3)

    -Standing, moving towards your target while zoomed in(0)
    -Standing, moving laterally from target while zoomed in(-3)
    -Standing, moving towards your target and hipfire(-5)
    -Standing, moving laterally from target and hipfire(-6)

    Accuracy Bonuses
    +Zoomed in while in the 3rd person(+1)
    +Kneeling(+2)
    +Firing supported/Utilizing cover(+2)

    +Firing Standing/unsupported while zoomed in(+1)
    +Firing Kneeling while zoomed in(+3)
    +Firing supported/from cover, zoomed in while standing(+4)
    +Firing supported/from cover, zoomed in while kneeling(+5)

    2. Proper physics and weapon sway. i.e. Weapon sway when turning quickly, weapon sway when firing on the move, extra weapon sway when firing from the hip and proper physics and weapon sway when changing directions(ADAD).

    I dont expect everyone to watch the full 20 minutes. Just see the first few minutes and the last couple where they show what proper weapon sway should look like with UE4.

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZnHBDh1Sh4


    -Moving Forwards and firing.

    We should see negligible/minimal weapon sway and accuracy penalties when moving forwards and firing while zoomed in. In fact this technique should be encouraged. This technique affords descent accuracy IRL and is an actual firing technique taught and used by both military and law enforcement. Offering proper bonuses for utilizing this firing technique encourages aggressive game play and is a realistic technique for assaulting a position.

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ddCD-6ahXs


    -We should however see extreme sway and heavy accuracy penalties when moving laterally and attempting to fire. This technique offers an extremely unstable firing platform for any shooter, Astartes or not, and should see proper accuracy and weapon sway/movement penalties.

    - Extreme-extreme weapon sway when moving laterally and hip firing. Hip firing should only be effective at very close range. Hip firing while moving should result in abhorrent accuracy with extreme weapon instability.

    Weapon sway seems to be there to some extent for Heavy classes but not at all for all other classes. If we'd had proper weapon sway from early Alpha, ADAD would never been as issue in EC because this technique would work to the detriment to the user as it should.

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