Not following, just saw your opinion and thought it was odd given our other discussion. I think my confusion stems from you saying this; Its not like its unbeatable or on a level far above all others like the Kannon. I mean the second part of your sentence leads me to think that you believe it's "best in class" but the first part seems separate, like you believe it to be unbeatable. I agree the Kannon is best in the class of "long range AoE denial". It's less versatile than it's Plasma Cannon and Tempest launcher cousins though and if you get close you've won. Personally I find them easy to kill when I come up against them and I find them easier to deal with than the other factions' counterparts. You need to compare the Ace Dakka and the MCAC to each other, not to the Auto Cannon, that is a pointless exercise. I don't think the suppression makes much of a difference, you have to remember that Orks take more suppression from all sources so are naturally more wild in their shots. This isn't an easy to get weapon either, as has already been stated it's a weapon that can only be acquired through loot boxes. Should we compare the unique poison chainsword with the mastercrafted one? Rites of Fire with the standard MC mace? Most logical thing to me, since it's a named weapon, is to give it the exact same stats as AG....
Did you even read my post? I literally just did compare the Ace Dakka and the Mastercrafted Autocannon. The Ace Dakka gets far, far more out of its 100 LP than the Mastercrafted does, it has 4 times as much of a reduction to SIPS, almost triple the v. recoil reduction as the MC Autocannon has h. recoil reduction, 50% extra ammo and suppression, all in exchange for a mere 9 damage? That's not okay. It needs much larger downsides or fewer upsides. The suppression does make a significant difference outside of short range. The only time I've seen Orks take more suppression is when using the Kannon Deffgun, which is likely a bug but regardless is not relevant to discussing the Ace Dakka. How hard the weapon is to get is completely irrelevant to the discussion. All weapons are supposed to be sidegrades, not upgrades, unique weapons especially so. The Ace Dakka is currently an upgrade to the Mastercrafted Autocannon. I agree, adding 0.16° SIPS, 0.31° v. recoil, reducing the ammo capacity by 33%, removing the suppression, reducing h. recoil by 0.12°, adding 9 damage and a negligible amount of fire damage would indeed solve the issue. I personally just want to see the suppression removed, but if you want it nerfed that much I'm okay with it.
You compared them both to the standard AC, which is somewhat misleading. You need to compare them side by side. You're also overplaying vertical recoil reduction IMO, the horizontal recoil is far more important for hitting moving targets and for making headshots. Same with your overplaying ammo capacity; it has some impact but I find most Lootas set up with a resupply box very close by so all it really does is allow them sustained fire for a little longer. Orks take more suppression from all sources on all ranged weapons. I disagree on the amount of difference you believe it makes. You're comparing the weapons in a vacuum. It is an upgrade in a certain sense but it is likely less killy (on account of it being easier to get headshots with AC, and dealing less damage) and you have not taken into account the fact that Orks lack much of anything in the way of accurate long-ranged weapons. This is a notable and important issue on certain maps where we literally can't compete past a certain distance. As previously stated, I don't think AG is as bad in comparison to AD as you think it is.
I believe MC weapons are due for a buff soon anyways so maybe a more meaningful comparison can be made then.
A few weeks of play with a single weapon? I think you may be off your rocker. As a result, I can't even begin to take you seriously, and I didn't really read throuh what you said carefully. You just need to look at what others are saying though.
I compared both weapons to the same base weapon to show the advantages that their 100 LP increase buys them in comparison to it. Here's your side by side: Neither weapon has enough recoil to prevent you from easily getting consecutive headshots, however the Mastercrafted Autocannon has 5 times as much spread increase per shot, which the player cannot compensate for and which does actually impact getting headshots, something you seem very keen to avoid discussing. The Ace Dakka has more H. Recoil, the MC Autocannon has more V. Recoil, that's fine, it's a little asymmetry. The MC Autocannon has more damage, the Ace Dakka has much less SIPS, that's fine, it's asymmetry. The Ace Dakka has more total ammo and suppression, the MC Autocannon has... Oh, wait. Sorry, but with the number of times you've presented your opinions as facts in the past, I'm not gunna just take your word for it. This has not been my experience in game and I've not seen any videos demonstrating this outside of the bug with suppression against Kannon Deffguns. Both weapons are the same archetype, Autocannons, any comparisons of them based purely on stats are relevant as both weapons are used by heavy weapons users in the same manner. I'm not comparing a Power Fist and a Bolter, I'm comparing an Autocannon and an Autocannon with suppression. It is not "likely less killy", it takes one more shot to kill on rare occasions such as shooting at Nurgle Marines. It is not easier for the AC to get headshots, it is pretty much the same, if not harder for the AC to get headshots as recoil can be compensated for whilst spread increase cannot. Orks have as many, if not more, long ranged accurate heavy weapons as any other faction. The Ace Dakka, Dakka Deffgun and Plasma Deffgun are all accurate and effective at long range when braced, the Kannon Deffgun is perfectly accurate even when not braced and moving, the Zapp Deffgun is a carbon copy of the Lascannon. What other long ranged accurate weapons are Orks lacking? Stalker Bolters? Only LSM have them, so everyone else is in the same boat there. The Ace Dakka needs to lose its suppression, or have a disadvantage introduced in order to pay for it, such as having much more recoil, more spread or a decrease in damage so that it will usually take 1 more shot to kill, rather than very rarely taking one more shot to kill. Each weapon has some pros and cons, but the Ace Dakka has far greater, and more, pros than it has cons. It needs less pros, or more cons. By having suppression it is filling more roles than it ought to, and thus removing the suppression is the easiest and most logical solution to the weapons imbalance.
Honestly the fix is remove Ace Dakka's suppression. Orks already have the Big Shoota to suppress targets they don't need it on the Ace Dakka as well. And this is coming from someone who has a Rank 5 Ork so don't come in and tell me I'm being biased here.
Why do you think I'm "very keen to avoid discussing"? Where have I led you to believe this? I'm more than happy to discuss it but it seems somewhat pointless when the effects of spread are relatively unknown and you seem to believe that Orks suffer the same suppression as other factions when I don't believe they do. Again, comparing weapons in a vacuum. Ad hominem will get you nowhere. So what you're saying is you've seen a video evidencing that Orks suffer more from suppression yet you don't believe it as you think it was a bug and it's not "your experience" in game? K. No, you're comparing a weaker Autocannon and an Autocannon with suppression. On 'rare occasions' where the enemy has been downed and got back up, or are under fire from other sources, or have taken damage previously from any source. Rare occasions? I don't think so. The one shot is massive on this weapon, it doesn't exactly have the highest ROF and it increases TTK. It's not about lacking a particular weapon. All of our shoota's weapons are less accurate than the equivalent on another faction. Bolters and Shuriken weapons are far more accurate at range. Dakka Deffgun and Plasma Deffgun are only accurate braced (as you mentioned). You ever tried to use them unbraced? My point, which I'm not sure whether you intentionally ignored or have done so by accident, is that Orks generally lack long ranged fire support. I agree with this to be fair, in that there's no point having a pound-for-pound better weapon than another in a particular niche. It invades on the Deffgun's space and this isn't necessary. Plus I think the suppression effect is virtually non-existent so I don't think it'll have much of an impact anyway. Of course you're biased. You're a member of an Eldar clan and Eldar is your primary. Rank means nothing. For what it's worth I've leveled an Eldar to rank 6 but I dare say I'm biased when it comes to Orks.
