Giving up means an approximate 0% chance of changing an easily changed plenty of people don't like.

Continuing to discuss it and providing hard evidence, an unknown chance of change.

I'll take the unknown over rolling over and accepting it, thank you.

I dont have a problem with argueing for a lost cause ... some of us have been argueing for certain things for over 2 years with no result despite getting what seems like general player consensus

but it does help if when people are doing so to understand the chances of having change implemented are remote, I've seen a lot of people over the years get very very salty or disillusioned when their "pet arguement" fails to gain traction

Perhaps, but of all the changes out there to argue about I can't think of any easier to actually physically do, it's literally just changing a name, I can't imagine it would take very long from a programming perspective, certainly in comparison to other proposals. As for GW, we're asking them to change it to a name that they themselves call it in the Codex and on their website, it would be completely illogical to reject the submission. It's the reason I'm polling for Chaos Space Marine and not the better submissions that people really wanted, because it's still an improvement.

I agree, changing the name would be helpful. I think out of reflex we all regard the "Traitor" class as the "Tactical" class. So I say we change it to just that, Tactical.

In the codex they are refered to as CSM or Chaos Marines. But that's really more of a faction identification. So in the heat of battle you want to use short sentences, nouns and verbs to get your command out.

Well, bear in mind this story originally began as soon as Traitor was announced, to a rather stunned reception by the Chaos community. Initially individuals attempted to explore the decision with Behaviour directly, then individuals tried to get it raised in Livestream FAQs, then Djemo threw up a poll to say (in effect) "This isn't just me, is it? We all hate this, don't we?".

And now, all this way down the line, the forum did manage to get its act together, after a few of us said "Look, at least let's do something and get this settled one way or the other." This poll is the product of that.

There isn't really any doubt about community feeling on this. Djemo's original poll had c.80% of people saying they disliked the name Traitor and would prefer it was changed. This one hasn't yet picked up as many people, but has been averaging around 90% in favour of changing to Chaos Space Marine. If that continues, it's a reasonably strong piece of evidence that a change would be welcomed.

Will it be enough to convice Behaviour to listen to the proposal? We'll see. I suspect that this will be the first part in a meaningful conversation with them about getting a change to happen - and, yes, we're ultimately reliant on someone at Behaviour being willing to take up this particular torch. But the actual change required is pretty minimal in game terms.

I'm also not concerned about GW. The piece of GW that'll be engaging with Behaviour represents the IP holders, they don't hold directorial influence over game decisions. Their concern is for protecting the 40k brand, so their approval is needed for various names and features (e.g. class names, weapon names & characteristics, visual aesthetics, etc). That's their role here - to confirm that what Behaviour are proposing is acceptable in line with the 40k license.

Now, if Behaviour were suggesting we introduce a new class called the Fluffykins Space Marine which was a woman, they'd have an apoplectic fit of rage and dismiss the suggestion on the spot.

However, we'll have really gone into the twilight zone if Behaviour say "Guys, do you mind if we rename the Traitor Marine class to Chaos Space Marine, which is what it's called in the codex?" and GW say "No, that's unacceptable."


Whilst there is no commitment from Behaviour to making a change, it's worth bearing in mind that they have already been willing to change this name in the not-too-distant past. And the circumstances which led to Traitor being chosen are pretty unusual - as a case in point, we've already had ten times more people vote for Chaos Space Marine here than voted for Traitor in the original poll. *facepalm*

So while I agree that in general it's difficult-to-impossible to persuade Behaviour to make specific changes, this is a little different to usual. I'd say we're in the challenging-but-doable category.

Incidentally, cheers to those who liked the new unofficial signature supporting this campaign.

To those who would like to adopt it for themselves, the image link is: http://i.imgur.com/j7cQtzb.png.

Please also put a link to this poll in your signature; no harm in helping to advertise the poll as you go about your daily business on the forums.

Link to the poll: http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/a-tactical-change-chaos-space-marines.53215

?

I like the name "Traitor" because it's loaded with irony when used by Chaos themselves, they'd speak it as dysphemistic euphemism. Much how the British used the pejorative "Yankee" which the colonials embraced as their ownt. I voted for it to stay.

My stablemates dubbed me "Angry Jesus" when I was fighting in attempts to rib me because I'm Atheist and calm(and because of my long hair at the time), I embraced the name for it's irony.

While I do not agree with you on the idea of having the name traitor I thank you for voicing your reason for wanting to stay as Traitor.