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A simple note on fighting Eldar

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by The-Forge-Dragon, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Also keep in mind that we have like literally no long-range AV, and Fire Dragons like cover.
    See where I am going with that? Rather than following protocol and hiding your Rhino behind a rock, put it in the openest of open field you can find, so the passive spawns or snipers or heavies have a good chance at picking a Dragon up before she reaches her target. (Also helps if one is closing in and you want to get that brick moving fast)
    Alternatively try to keep it close to the fighting zone, so your team is hopefully around it. A remote location can help hiding it, but I assure you: I know every spot and I only need to see one of you running to know, where to look.

    From time to time I see Rhinos literally piled together. like: 2 or 3 of them back to back. I mean: thats just asking for it.

    Lastly: if you are a Predator-driver and you are playing against Eldar, what I fail to understand is the following: Why would you ever stop? A moving Predator, fully manned is almost impossible for us to kill and will dominate the battlefield whereever it goes. A standing Predator is going to blow up in t-30s.
    On the other hand: I dont understand our Falcon Pilots either. Why many of them use the primary gun or why you would spawn a Falcon as any class but Fire Dragon.
    I guess the tank people are just a mysterious bunch.
    ArchKnightHough likes this.
  2. 1: Equip bolter

    2: Point and click

    3: Defend rhinos !
  3. Reaper Launchers hit as hard as Lascannons, it's just a matter of a short travel time, not to mention being more easily turned into heavy anti-personnel. There's a reason Imperials and Chaos keep asking for their own rocket launchers, and the Orkz for a proppa tankbusta.

    Unless we're defining long-range as threading the needle at 500m through a gap, through a time window only the MC las can hope to fire through and successfully hit. That does happen on occasion.
  4. Lady Rheeva Steam Early Access

    Yeah. And also they are also used about as frequently as lascannons and usually preferably for AP (unless you are talking fortress, in which case I neither know nor care) or at least that the impression I get watching our Dark Reapers.
    Also I believe they have significantly lower DPS, even if the DPP is similar.
    I guess its not wrong that RL potentially are threating to vehicles, but most certainly not the way the DFB is. If many Eldar snipe, you can still go for cover instead.
  5. Dorfus Dorfus Steam Early Access

    but why bother doing that when saying eldar op and waiting for BHVR to nerf them even more is easier?
    Trooper909 likes this.
  6. Auzor Auzor Menial

    Reaper Launcher as heavy anti-personnel?
    I hope you're not talking about the pitiful mini-missiles, launched like a wobbly blow-dart?

    As for 'same damage': extremely doubtful. vs vehicles we don't know the AP, and this seems to have an influence, to say the least.
    Even if 'damage' were equal however, Eldar vehicles are by far squishier, with far lower hit points, and the cockpit as extra vulnerable weak-point. (ironic, considering the wave serpent is supposed to be far tougher than a Rhino.. let alone an Ork trukk...)

    vs clueless players the lascannon is actually easier to snipe with; likewise to hit a moving target at medium range.
    At close range you aim the reaper launcher at the ground and hope, yes..
    It also is difficult to shoot over a random pebble between you and your target.

    The Eldar don't have:
    an Autocannon, Plasma cannon (yes, tempest launcher, but no direct fire mode, also: *expensive* in LP), Multi-Melta, nor Grav cannon.
    No offense, but the reaper launcher could really use a rework.

    An admitted advantage is that it can be 'charged up' from cover, then released.
    imo, this is not enough.
    The Starswarm mode needs a rework at the very least.
    Much faster missiles, auto-firing mode,...
    Higher damage, higher AP,..
  7. So, so, SO much this. Sure, a Fire Dragon can pop a tank as quickly as it's able to slap 2 Meltabombs on it, but for one thing that's the only job they're good for (though they can sort-of sideline as "meatshields" but that won't get you very far with their inherent Eldar fragility) and for another all the other factions are equally capable of killing vehicles but have more durability to boot.

    Any time someone tries to gripe about Eldar vehicles moving too fast to use the same meltabomb tactics on I always find myself muttering something like "have you tried moving yours around instead of letting it just SIT there?" Eldar NEED to keep their vehicles moving - they're made out of tissue paper and take far less damage to kill. They know this, so they keep them mobile. Fire Dragons are just an equalizer in that regard. Simple solution - keep yer metal boxes rolling and FD's won't be blowing them up, since Melta/fusion bombs have a tendency to refuse to stick to moving objects. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept to grasp for so many people.

    As far as the Reaper Launcher is concerned, I'm all for a rework that splits it into 2 completely separate weapons: the Reaper Launcher which would fire the Starswarm projectiles (but actually be adequate at killing things - better accuracy, higher fire-rate, and a higher overheat threshold would be a good start) and a Missile Launcher that behaves like the Starshot.
  8. Auzor Auzor Menial

    Tbh, I *really* don't want to see it split into 2 different weapons.

    The (Space Marine) plasma cannon has 2 fire modes, the loyalists have their sniper-bolter,
    yet eldar don't get a sniper-ranger, or maybe at some point as a special elite.. not quite the same things.
    Then there is the special lascannon that locks in 1 second, to place a DoT for example.

    If anything, I would change the reaper launcher, and *then* add the Eldar Missile Launcher.

    New reaper launcher:
    Fire Mode 1: 90 RPM, 160 dmg, 140 AP, fast (twice current for starters..) guided missiles. no AoE.
    give it a magazine size, forcing active reloading breaks, I've been thinking about mag size.. 9 was a first thought.
    now 12 seems reasonable.

    a bolter deals 38 dmg at the most relevant ranges, at 333 rpm. Approx. 211 dps.
    Reaper launcher above would be 240 dps. Damage scaling at range negotiable, but not "bad"; heavy class, non-hitscan weapon,.. And of course, big AP advantage. On the other hand, very unforgiving for missing a shot etc.
    Just for fun: Autocannon: 171 RPM, 133 dmg, 115 pen. 392 dps. Hitscan. But, should be less accurate, and less AV damage. Also: only 500 LP, vs 600 for the reaper launcher..

    Fire mode 2:
    Charge 3 missiles, into a guided 'kinda-AV' fast weapon. Faster to charge, but not an insta-gib AoE: AoE like a plasma cannon, but damage of a normal plasma gun + the stun too.
    Should however, deal decent damage to vehicles; 40% of a lascannon shot e.g. if it loads in 1 second. (nb: mastercrafted lascannon loads a shot in 1.5 seconds, and eldar vehicles have half-health-ish etc. Then again, MC lascannon is 700 LP..).

    Eldar Missile Launcher:
    Mode 1: Krak mode, kinda like a Lascannon missile. Could be the current "Starshot" mode, maaaybe; I still feel the missile is slow tbh.
    Mode 2: Plasma missile: faster guided plasma cannon orb basically...
  9. I'm referring to the single shot mode; Star Swarm is about as big a joke as the automatic mode on plasma guns.

    Its charge mode is fully capable of striking down any infantry target, with remote guidance far better than the current charge mechanic of the equivalents; fire a round off without telegraphing nearly as hard, make adjustments as you go and stand a vague chance against HMGs (plus just enough splash to get a hard kill if it's not a direct hit) vs painting them and alerting them to the charge up, having to fight your own scope (and good fucking luck if you get suppressed) and potentially never getting the shot off due to generally available cover.

    And it takes 4 hits on a Predator's sponson to kill it, be it a lascannon, zzap gun or a reaper launcher and I have zero doubts this would change vs other weak points/ vehicles . Feel free to use your own guns some time.

    Because that's not how you solve a problem. Shocking, I know. We here in the Warhammer fanbase are accustomed to whining when things don't go our way.

    Hop in a Rhino. Make sure there are plenty of people in your squad, and keep the Rhino moving. The Fire Dragons can't catch you if you're never stopping. Drive by points, stop by the spawn area to pick up fresh spawns, just make sure you keep that Rhino out of their sight because the enemy in general(not just Eldar, though they do seem to be the most confused when mobile spawn points aren't where they thought they were) will have a hard time keeping a point locked down when the Rhino doesn't blow the fuck up.

    XavierLight likes this.

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