Oh I see where you're coming from then. Keep in mind though that GW is notorious for making few female miniatures and has been called out on this multiple times so their plastic man's aren't the best example to look to. Personally I always thought of this as a byproduct to how expensive producing new molds is rather than any inherent discrimination. Anyway you are right to say that the IG is predominantly male but there are companies formed of women for varied reasons and the Imperium accepts these and holds them to the same standards as male IG. One example I can give off the top of my head is the female-only company of Valhallans that was merged with the male-only company that Commissar Cain was overseeing into a mixed regiment. Lots of good drama came from that. Lt. Mira in Space Marine was also part of a female-only company as I remember until the Cadians on the planet had to all be brought into a single lump due to heavy loses (although Space Marine may be considered non-canon).
I deleted the .pdf that had the history of the Imperium in it... but going by the wikis women most likely weren't conscripted. There may be one integrated regiment, but I don't know if past Codexes are still cannon. On a separate note on some planets women were used specifically for breeding. >.> I saw something about there being a planet with such high fatality rates that both men and women fought. It may depend what part of the Imperium you are from since each planet was allowed to make most of their own decisions as long as they paid the tithe.
Afaik there are women in the IG, but they're a minority (around 10%). Additionally, regiments are almost exclusively single-gender (for reasons which the regiment command knows best), though judging by some artwork, the Cadians have some mixed regiments. Which actually makes a good tad of sense, seeing how every Cadian is more or less born with flak armor and a lasgun at hand. EDIT: Also, seeing how this thread is still open, here's my fifty cents on the topic: I'm all for having Sororitas/Dark Eldar/ (Female) IG in the game if you want them because these factions are cool. But the second you only want them in the game so you can play as something with tits (sorry Slaaneshi fellows, you somehow don't count) or because you want a specific gender ration of so-and-so (in either direction), you're basically reducing the faction and their characters on their sex only.
Well that's pretty much what I mean in that there is nothing in the system itself that would stop women from serving in the guard and that it's the decision of any given planet.
See, and now you've just displayed missing background knowledge that has apparently shaped your perception of the setting in a way that lets you decry supposed retcons ... when it is actually you who is unintentionally advocating retcons based on your lack of information. In Codex fluff, the "firstborn son" stuff is exclusively mentioned to be how the Vostroyan Firstborn regiments do it. There is not a single line in any of the codices that suggests this is how every world does it. In fact, we get to read the opposite: "Methods of recruiting vary from world to world. On the Chaos-plagued world of Cadia every man, woman and child is expected to serve in the Cadian Defence Force and, by extension, the Imperial Guard. On seething hive worlds such as Alcatran, it is common for entire generations to be drafted and sent to fight on distant worlds, the indentured gangs given the choice between volunteering or summary execution." -- 5E Codex Imperial Guard "On Cadia, the birth rate and recruitment rate are synonymous." -- http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Imperial-Guard-Cadians-5-models Fact is that, at least in Games Workshop's version of the setting, recruitment is based solely and entirely on the individual world that raises a regiment, and thus affected by its local culture. Sure, many worlds may have a male-dominated culture where only men are allowed to join the armed forces. Similarly, other worlds may have a female-dominated culture where only women end up being soldiers. A Codex example are the Xenonian Free Companies: -- 3E Codex Imperial Guard As I said, the Imperium doesn't care whether you are male or female. All the Administratum wants is a regiment by a certain name and headcount to be raised in a timely manner. How exactly the local governor does that is that planet's business alone, as long as Terra's demands are fulfilled. Here is a small assembly of female Imperial Guard miniatures that were once produced by GW, representing soldiers from four different regiments (from left to right: unknown, Xenan, Tanith, Catachan), and a female Commissar in the middle (limited edition Games Day figure) -> So if your wikis say something else, it is probably best to keep in mind that those are fan-edited sources which I have noticed to contain misquoted or outright made-up information before. That being said, it should also be kept in mind that there is no canon, and some non-studio sources such as novels may indeed portray things differently than the original Codex fluff, so your sources are not actually "wrong" .. they just show a different 40k than Games Workshop's interpretation of the setting. Though, wouldn't this, the omission of female troops that were present in the original source material, qualify as an example of the "retcons" you are so vividly argueing against? Given that the former is far more likely to happen, personally I would take what I can get. Though I don't see why they would have to be "weaker" clones if GW says they are the Marines' equals. I understand and empathise. Actually, I have a very similar stance when it comes to preserving the background. For example, this is why I was pissed about some Star Wars EU authors retroactively inserting equality into the Empire's armed forces as if it was always like that, when it used to be a development that only came about later, spearheaded by characters such as Admiral Daala or General Corvae - and culminating in absolute egality in the Legacy era. It was a development that not only mirrored current real world changes, but also an example that the setting is actually moving and changing. And as you said, it made for interesting characters. Anyways, I hope the above quotes show that in this case Games Workshop's official background is clearly on my side of the argument. Now, will you stick to your self-professed appreciation of continuity and turn around to demand the inclusion of female Guardsmen? The setting's in-universe flaws, aka The Grimdark(tm), are what drew me into 40k as well. However, I suppose I consider it a flaw that men and women are equally worthless, and everyone is but a tiny cog in the giant, uncaring machine that is the Imperium of Man. Well, as has been pointed out earlier, not everyone here would have voted, and not everyone who votes might do so for their actual gender. The polls are not anonymous (click on "view results" -> number of votes to get the user list), and I have a feeling those few female gamers who are interested in the game can do without awkward stalking experiences. Either way, I would expect a clear minority anyways, both due to the genre, but also because the franchise and fanbase do not have the best reputation when it comes to inter-gender contact during hobby activities. That being said, real life gender is independent of what sort of character people end up playing, anyways.
I just jumped three pages of this topic and I don't think I missed a thing that hasn't been said before.
I read that bit from the 5th codex yesterday as several other places cited it when I was googleing women and the tithe (to see if I was right) and wasn't sure if past codex's are canon. And yes, the two wikis contradict both each other and what I've read in the 6th edition codex's. I've read every version of the Chaos codex I could get my hand on and all of them contradict each other in small ways. It is ridiculous that if the 5th edition codex specifies that there are female Guardsman that the spruces don't have a few female bodies in them like the Dark Eldar. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Hellions http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Dark-Eldar-Kabalite-Warriors I am willing to admit that in this case I am clearly wrong about the tithe and I need to re-examine the idea that sexism is a part of 40k lore. I am coming from Warhammer Fantasy and 40k isn't Warhammer Fantasy in space.
I'm glad to see you're not a hypocrite - I apologise if my previous post was worded a bit aggressive; it was a bit of a kneejerk reaction. I am certainly just as confused as to why Cadians in particular do not have any female models, especially as the Codex Eye of Terror mentions that assignment into the Interior Guard and the Shock Troops is partially randomised. Even more strange is that the female Catachan from the above picture has been removed from their box when Catachans made the change from metal minis into plastics. *shrug* In regards to canonicity - I found GW codices to be remarkably consistent, at least compared to what I've read in various Black Library novels or FFG's roleplaying game. There have been some changes, but most fluff is just an expansion of earlier material, adding some detail that may present earlier background in a new light (example: the Grey Knights' resistance now being partially a result of sorcerous rituals). The design notes for the 3E Witch Hunter Codex, published in White Dwarf, stated the writers' intention to remain consistent with anything published bedore, up to and including even 1st edition Rogue Trader (specifically citing the Sisters purging the Rainbow Warriors Chapter as an example). That being said, even codices are merely one possible interpretation of the setting, so it doesn't matter which edition the material you prefer belongs to. All sources are equally optional and possible. "Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it. Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths." - Marc Gascogne, former Chief Editor Black Library Well, some planets might be. I still remember that idea that the WHFB world was just a planet in the 40k setting that is isolated by a warp storm. I believe that was dropped many years ago, but I still consider it a sensible theory. I've got very little knowledge of the Warhammer Fantasy world, though, I just know it also has a fantasy version of the Sororitas (Sisters of Sigmar) as well as female mercenaries, Norse valkyries and amazons. Anyways, sexism can absolutely be part of individual Imperial worlds! And as mentioned, there is at least one world ruled by "warrior women", so it goes both ways, too. I just dispute the concept that it plays any role for the Imperium as a whole. Every world having its own unique culture is a big advantage of 40k, because it allows you to have a sexist Guard regiment (of either men or women) whilst still allowing other players to field a mixed one - without necessarily forcing a background conflict!
