[apologies in advance if this has already been covered - I searched the forums and didn't find anything] Background: Right now, stacking Toughness is pointless for many Factions/classes because so many weapons have Penetration ratings which make that stacked Toughness irrelevant. Stacking Health is in the middle, but because Health and Armour are treated identically (as far as I know), stacking Armour is always going to be the best option because it can recharge. You can, of course, only get so much armour, but this is an arbitrary restriction to prevent increasing TTK too much and is a patch on a gangrenous wound. The system itself is fundamentally flawed. So here is my suggestion: Existing function in blue. New function in red. Health Take Health damage. If you hit 0, you die/get downed. Leave Health as it is. That was easy, eh? More Health means more hits before death. Armour Takes damage. When Armour reaches 0, damage is taken from Health instead. Penetration now opposes Armour. Penetration is a percentage bleed-through, where damage that would otherwise be absorbed by Armour is taken from Health. The lowest Penetration weapons (Boltguns, Chainswords etc') will have 0 Penetration in the current system. Higher Penetration weapons will be more than 0. It would need number-crunched to determine how high that Penetration value would be for various weapons. Higher Armour values are still valuable, as they continue to reduce the incoming damage to Health (as well as protecting as normal against low-Penetration weapons). Note that damage values even out slightly as Armour will last relatively longer against high Penetration weapons, since a portion of their damage is being applied straight to Health. This makes it something of a trade-off where high Penetration weapons are better in protracted fights where enemies have a chance to recharge Armour, but no better in a straight 1v1 to the death. Toughness Opposes Penetration. Where Penetration > Toughness, does nothing, otherwise serves as a reduction on all incoming damage. Toughness is a flat damage reduction on Health only. Armour is always damaged at the full rate. Damage which Penetrates Armour is also reduced by this damage reduction value. I believe these changes would give us a scenario where every attribute is worthwhile and it's just down to particular preference or playstyle as to which a player might go for.
Edit: Just realised my maths was wrong in Example 1 there (20% of 50 is 10, not 20). Doesn't change the outcome, just the specifics. Some examples (all numbers pulled from thin air): Example 1 at 200 Health, 100 Armour. Chainsword - 50 damage per hit, 0 Penetration. Power Sword - 50 damage per hit, 20% Penetration Chainsword - {{Hit 1}} H200 A50. {{Hit 2}} H200 A0. {{Hit 3}} H150 A0. {{Hit 4}} H100 A0. {{Hit 5}} H50 A0. {{Hit 6}} H0 A0. Dead. Power Sword - {{Hit 1}} H180 A70. {{Hit 2}} H160 A40. {{Hit 3}} H140 A10. {{Hit 4}} H90 A0. {{Hit 5}} H40 A0. {{Hit 6}} H0 A0. Dead. Power Sword - {{Hit 1}} H190 A60. {{Hit 2}} H180 A20. {{Hit 3}} H130 A0. {{Hit 4}} H80 A0. {{Hit 5}} H30 A0. {{Hit 6}} H0 A0. Dead. Example 2 at 200 Health 100 Armour. Chainsword - 50 damage per hit, 0 Penetration. Power Sword - 50 damage per hit, 50% Penetration Chainsword - {{Hit 1}} H200 A50. {{Hit 2}} H200 A0. {{Hit 3}} H150 A0. {{Hit 4}} H100 A0. {{Hit 5}} H50 A0. {{Hit 6}} H0 A0. Dead. Power Sword - {{Hit 1}} H175 A75. {{Hit 2}} H150 A50. {{Hit 3}} H125 A25. {{Hit 4}} H75 A0. {{Hit 5}} H25 A0. {{Hit 6}} H0 A0. Dead. Note at Hit 3 in Example 1 and Hit 4 in Example 2 with the Power Sword, the % of damage bleed-through exceeds remaining Armour, so all damage is applied to Health. In these examples, 1v1 TTK is identical (6 hits), however the higher penetration weapon has damaged the enemy's Health, which won't recharge, meaning they will need to escape and heal or will be an easier target going forwards. The trade-off on this is their armour actually survives for a little longer. This prevents Power weapons being the de-facto correct choice and makes it more of a balance. Example 3 at 200 Health 100 Armour. Boltgun - 10 damage per hit, 0 Penetration Autocannon - 10 damage per hit, 20% Penetration Boltgun - {{Hit 1}} H200 A90. {{Hit 2}} H200 A80 (...) {{Hit 30}} H0 A0. Dead. Autocannon - {{Hit 1}} H198 A92. {{Hit 2}} H196 A84. {{Hit 3}} H194 A76. {{Hit 4}} H192 A68. {{Hit 5}} H190 A60. {{Hit 6}} H188 A52. {{Hit 7}} H186 A44. {{Hit 8}} H184 A36. {{Hit 9}} H182 A28. {{Hit 10}} H180 A20. {{Hit 11}} H178 A12. {{Hit 12}} H176 A4. {{Hit 13}} H166 A0 (...) {{Hit 30}} H0 A0. Dead. Example 4 at 200 Health 100 Armour. Boltgun - 10 damage per hit, 0 Penetration Autocannon - 10 damage per hit, 50% Penetration Boltgun - {{Hit 1}} H200 A90. {{Hit 2}} H200 A80 (...) {{Hit 30}} H0 A0. Dead. Autocannon - {{Hit 1}} H195 A95. {{Hit 2}} H190 A90. {{Hit 3}} H185 A85. {{Hit 4}} H180 A80. {{Hit 5}} H175 A75. {{Hit 6}} H170 A70. {{Hit 7}} H165 A65. {{Hit 8}} H160 A60. {{Hit 9}} H155 A55. {{Hit 10}} H150 A50 (...) {{Hit 20}} H100 A0. {{Hit 21}} H90 A0. {{Hit 22}} H80 A0 (...) {{Hit 30}} H0 A0. Dead. Again, 1v1 TTK remains identical between the two weapons, but depending on where Penetration is set, a non-fatal initial combat between two players would favour the high Penetration weapon in a protracted fight.
I like it, but do I like it because it's a good idea, or because it is a subtle way to slightly nerf LSM and CSM and slightly buff Orks? I don't know, it's hard to be impartial at the moment Also this; Looks like this to me; 0001001001010100101010 100101001010100000111100101010010101000010101010010101 101010010 101010010101
Haha! No intention to buff anyone relative to anyone else, I just think it makes more sense. I should've done a TL;DR for the examples with: "It does what I say it does."
I'm all for something different, as in it's current state toughness doesn't really do anything. Really only affects bolters/equivalents right now.
That's the main thing my suggestion was trying to overcome, yeah. The system should be set up in such a way that every attribute remains useful (to a greater or lesser degree depending on what weapon the opponent is using) no matter what.
Definitely +1. Your suggestion is the closest thing to 40k rpg tt mechanics that are fantastically thought out.
