If that's your reaction to us saying this is not a good idea. Sorry.

Arguably a better solution would be: Fix melee, which the devs, a team numbering less than 10 at this point is actually trying to do.

Make what T and Pen are supposed to do common knowledge. Revise Pen so it doesn't get a bonus for low T targets, this becoming more effective overall. At least make it make sense.

And third, (this is not my idea but I agree with it), reduce the headshot modifier or totally remove it on all but Precision weapons. If it's meant to get headshots, then keep it as such.

A proposed list of what these "Precision Weapons" would be:

Eldar Shuriken, except for their Pistols.
Stalker Bolter
Charged Plasma

The drawback to these Precision weapons is that they sacrifice body damage for headshot damage. In the case of a Plasma Pistol for example, it would deal maybe 120 damage to the chest, but to the head it would deal 600, a 5x increase for a single shot arching, close ranged weapon. This would apply to Plasma Guns and Cannons as well, though obviously cannons benefit the least from this unless they dome a MoN elite in which case it's taking upwards of 1k damage for an expert shot.

Everything else doesn't need a headshot bonus. Autocannons don't, Bolters don't. Ect. This all would help both the Eldar and everyone else get closer to their archetypes and be balanced at the same.time. Players wouldn't be so worried with constant headshots against Eldar only a select few players seem.to achieve in order to fight them "effectively". Instead just hit them with raw, unchanging DPS thus promoting the LSM ideal, and still allowing the Eldar to play with a skill based faction.

The lore to this is supportive as well. Taking an RPG or Geneva convention banned American Civil War era pie plate sized slugga round to the face or chest really isn't going to make much of a difference in separating head from body or body from head. Whereas the needle like, eye seeking Shuriken benefits from Bladestorm, and is truly the only weapon in the game that has any right at all to a headshot since that's what the rule is on TT.

I'm sorry, fucking WHAT? LOL. I don't know who's idea this is if you say it isn't yours, but it is one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever read and I'm genuinely struggling to believe that it isn't your idea given that you're an Eldar main that has been repeatedly humiliated in GvGs with BLOP and even consistently lost to PUBS despite having a 10 man team. Not to mention, the arguments you give for this are hilariously transparent - you're sick of getting killed by better players so you want to nerf the skill ceiling on other factions to make you more viable - and to back this up you use lore arguments and realism arguments both of which literally have no relevance to fun, competitive gameplay.

To break this down further, no, plasma weapons should not deal 600 damage from a charged headshot - this is enough to one hit kill any class in the game including elites, not to mention that giving it more headshot power will make for some very, very annoying moments where a single d-bash results in instant death (as if it doesn't already) so increasing this further is silly. Yes, hitting someone with a charged headshot might take skill but so does consistently tracking someone and landing headshots ala @DemonKingBAAL style so why should the bolter be rewarded any less for using that consistent skill to land headshots?

Any weapon that hits the head should be dealing extra damage simply because it is a smaller target and thus requires more skill to consistently hit, whether it is a Shoota, an Autocannon or a Shuriken Catapult or even a Bolter, there should be no difference in the multiplier being applied. And it's not just Eldar that require headshots - if you aren't landing headshots for the majority of your hits against any faction you should be practicing to improve that until you hit at least 70% headshots otherwise you will consistently lose to those who can aim better than you. Headshots give you a damage multiplier and allow you to hold your own against less skilled players which is the key reason why they exist, they allow a good player to overcome a bad player and a terrific player to overcome several bad players. This adds a dynamic skill level to the game where one player can engage six players and win if they are significantly better than their attackers, limiting the bolter or shoota to only bodyshot damage would significantly limit how effective a non-eldar player can be.

Not to mention, giving only one faction headshot multipliers on their weapons will result in that faction being objectively superior if you aren't a shit player, which I know you are aware of, I refuse to believe that you are so naive as to think this is just for the benefit of the meta and that it won't make Eldar incredibly powerful due to them being able to headshot mow people down in about 0.6s compared to everyone else who will have TTK of about 1.1 - 1.3s against most targets. Promoting shit playstyles in order to keep the 'LSM IDEAL' is just as transparent as the rest of this horseshit though, you do not reward bad play. Things that take skill are rewarded, things that are easy (bodyshots) should not be encouraged as the only way to play.

And of course you finish off the post with a lore/realism, RPG & TT argument as well. Why not. When you can't argue substance or offer valid justifications, post meaningless conjecture. How fucking pathetic. I've lost all respect that I may have had for you after this post. You literally got beaten by other factions so hard that your only recourse is to hard-cap the amount of skill they can bring to bear upon their enemies.

Hey man I like the idea of straight 8th ed rules MATH into a video game. Idk why devs dont do this shit. Honestly the system works just copy it duh

Its been years, one might have thought he would un-stupid himself and realize shooters are not tabletop turn based, dice rng games.

Fix?

You have seen the wheel, didn't liked it and want to add random shapes all over the place because reasons.

If more people have shared your idea of fixing, humanity would be long extinct.

Since when is charged plasma, a heavy and slowly travelling projectile with an arc, a precision weapon? Is a frag grenade a precision weapon too? If they dealt 600 damage then fuck me the spam from the change in meta would be absolutely horrid, being able to kill anything in the game if you got mildly lucky from one shot (imagine the spam indoors) would make anyone change their now headshot-incapable bolter out for a plasma gun.

Still this is some pretty legendary pro-Eldar bias if ever I saw some. Only Eldar and 2 x weapons from the LSM/CSM can achieve headshots arbitrarily (I guess 'fuck you' if you're an Ork player) which would lower the skill ceiling across those factions. If it's something EC needs, it's boring ranged combat which no longer rewards skillful aim, which prefers the notoriously slippery and hard-to-fight Eldar. Eldar would remain a faction with a high skill ceiling but everyone else gets dumbed down because ... I don't know.

To justify this you cherry pick some lore and some TT. Even though the lore has been written by dozens of different authors at this stage and is as authoritative as fan fiction due to conflicts in writing, and the TT (a turn-based strategy wargame) is completely incomparable, it's okay if you refer to it for YOUR suggestions.

Whoa, judging by your reaction I'd imagine that losing all respect for me wasn't much of a leap. Here, let me put it this way.

Orks for example probably suffer the most In both directions for this. They have such a large headshot target, the devs had to Nerf it. Their weapons were once so inaccurate players could not score headshot bonuses against enemy targets that could against them, the disparity was clear, people complained, and Ork headshots were nerfed and their accuracy buffed, and still @Thrakka plus most of DLB left. Even after fixes to the Shoota, especially the rodeo Shoota has become arguably one of the best tactical weapons in the game, with a higher RoF and raw damage per shot it's like a CC Bolter with 50% the rate of fire. Why? I mean rightfully it should have these damage stats, but it's just Unorky to aim it and rely on headshots. You have to be super close in the scheme of things in order to make use of the headshot bonuses - basically Dbash back peddle range. Furthermore, Shootas have a 4x scope. I encourage you to try it out sometime. It makes virtually no sense to use it. This, I would argue the Orks at least be designed in a way where accuracy should not be a focus, volume of fire and hitting the targets any way they can should be. Likewise, it would seem unfair for others to score a headshot bonus unless the weapon is specifically designed to do so. TT supports this. The lore supports this, as does the game mechanics. Just look at the Ork population right now.

Now to why Shuriken's deserve a headshot bonus and all but Stalker Bolters do not.

I say (and believe I said in my OP) Nerf the body damage of "Precision Weapons". This includes the TLSC, which seems to be the Eldar meta this patch because it's enjoying the best of two worlds. Now I'm not about to disagree with you about your TTK numbers, however, I know they were taken out of context as the TTK between headshots for Eldar vs Everything Else is pretty much the only way they stay on par before getting warlock buffs. Even then, before Warlock buffs, they're beaten at the DPS vs Survivability game. A SM Bolter wins the slugfest outright, before headshots are even accounted for. The way the original Shuriken's were designed, the ASC, is to be an accurate, short ranged head shot seeking weapon. The TL changed things and I think it's too powerful and doesn't fit a role. It enjoys a higher RoF, less of a headshot bonus, and less accuracy, especially on the move. It's a Storm Bolter that gets a headshot bonus. And we all know what happened when SBs got headshot bonuses. So this weapon in particular is in an identity crisis. It doesn't seem to respect either direction very well.

My opinion on it is that it's damage overall be nerfed, but it gains some accuracy on the move and retains the headshot bonus.

The SC is in the same spot when compared with heavy weapons of the same type. It's sub par on its own, with Warlocks it's a total monster. I would still say it's a pretty decent place but again I would like to see damage shift a little towards a focus on headshots. Which, funnily enough is another Nerf to the Eldar since what I'm saying is that Eldar weapons deal too much damage to the body. Why? They spray bullets out like nothing else in the game and are SUPPOSED to be very accurate. Thus, headshots are what the Eldar need to be aiming at. I'm actually very surprised you're against this @ProteusVM, it's an active Nerf to the Eldar skill floor. Players with Shuriken's cannot rely on their danity shiney weapons to "do the job" unless they're hitting their opponent in the head, thus massively improving TTK across the board unless the Eldar player is accurate and being rewarded with their "cannon" status. That is mostly how it currently works, but is too generous with its damage to the body.

Bolter: Now I get why you're attached to this thing, it's evident by your reaction you believe as though your faith to the emperor extends to this weapon. Which is why, specifically the Stalker Bolter, and Plasma should retain, and even get buffs while the Bolter itself loses the headshot bonus. Why doesn't the Bolter need a headshot bonus?

Stay tuned, writing this on my phone and player 3 has entered the building, @KillSlim .

Eldar would be broken af (btw ork is the best faction but chtt dont tell DLB)
You just want melee to be overpowered right?

Alright let me go through this again now that the table is better set. Just a quick recap, Eldar weapons losing Headshot bonuses:

All Swooping Hawk weapons.
Temptest Launchers (yes, amazingly they have them).

Eldar Weapons getting reworked:

TLSC

Reason why Eldar Shurkien's retain headshot bonus.

They're skill based glass cannons.

Reason why everything else loses headshot bonus: it helps fight the "annoying race" since you don't have to focus on their giant, but always moving, elusive, heads. Not everyone cares to do this. Not everyone, especially the LSM, can do this. Thus when they fail and die to an Eldar they scream OP because they couldn't score a headshot when body shots would have been good enough.

Just score hits like Halo or Relic's SM. It's not a boring shooter. CoD is.

What hasn't been communicated; ranged damage, specifically the Bolter, Shurikens and Shootas would all need a slight rework.

Bolters probably can stay roughly the same for a patch. They're a good benchmark.

Shootas need less accuracy but higher RoF and no headshot modifier. They have 4x scopes on them. I suggest you try using one some time.

Shuriken's need to deal less body damage and probably retain their headshot damage. The ASC isn't really a problem. It's the TLSC. Again I think it's in some sort of identity crisis where it can't decide to be an assault rifle or SMG. It should go full on SMG, lose accuracy ovetall be, but be more accurate on the move, lose some DPS overall, retain headshot bonus.

Stalkers retain their headshot bonus but lose accuracy while hip firing.

And on plasma @KillSlim. The ball has to strike the face of the enemy, not splash into it. That is extremely difficult to do and is not what you are imagining. The spam you're thinking of would arise if the AoE reached the head hitbox and that's not what I'm asking. @ProteusVM I threw a number out there, 600 may be a bit high but it certainly should one shot down (not kill) anyone if it strikes them in the face, so maybe 400 for the pistol and 500 for the gun if the projectile strikes the head of the enemy. Otherwise if it lands anywhere else, i.e. shoulder, chest, w.e. it deals the normal damage.

How? With few exceptions, (TLSC) the Eldar Shurkien's already rely on headshots to stay on par with the other weapons body damage against them. I realize how strong Shuriken body damage is, especially throwing a 30%+50% warlock buffs on top of it do they outperform everything. We can throw stats around all day but the fact is that Shuriken's deal a lot of damage because the Eldar can't take very much damage, I.E, glass cannons. I was hoping that removing headshot damage would help promote fighting Eldar, which has always seemed to be among the primary gripes with people in this game, especially among the LSM. I get that people seem to be up in arms about an asymetrical balance idea. It's understandable. In order to balance one has to take in order to give, definitely willing to hear the counter argument rather than Eldar OP.

Plasma, and airburst grenades are both examples of a skill shot.

You had to take a moment to toss the arc in such a way to land near a target that's probably moving, sacrifice all DPS directed at a target that's likely shooting at you, potentially have it blow up in your face if you do it wrong. The reward currently does not justify the risk, thus Plasma pistols in particular are highly underused. And again, the headshot damage is what I'd like to change, they have to land a full on blast to the head on order to score that bonus. If ANY ranged weapon deserves a headshot bonus it's the Plasma Gun/Pistol.

That said, onto Orks and Eldar.

One. Orks are not known for the accuracy.

Eldar are.

Yet both benefits from this bonus, in fact Eldar rely on it, and I would argue that with the current stats the Orks actually benefit the most from headshots as unlike the Bolter, they have roughly the same damage per shot, more bullets per mag, and a much higher rate of fire. The only advantage a Bolter has is it's accuracy at mid-range, which is what it's supposed to have. On top of this, they have the highest T and HP, the worst effectiveness in cover, the worst camera angle, and are fucking massive. Why on earth would we encourage them to stand still in order to get headshots if the alternative is just laying down more dakka while still being able to move?

Oh and Eldar? They're skinny, fast, have good camera angles, make decent use of cover, have DPS even though it's subpar a Bolter, ect. "OP" I hear you. Now hear me.

The Eldar are supposed to be standing still while firing Shuriken weapons. That's because their hip-firing wrecks with their aim by design. The ASC and SC not the TLSC, respects this design choice. The TLSC violates this design choice and needs to be changed. I believe it falls to a choice here. Either it becomes one of the worst offenders to ADAD spam, or it comes more in line with ASC, which can't - and should not do ADAD spam.

In fact, the only weapon that really benefits, or at least benefits the most from ADAD spam, is the Bolter. That's because moving with it does not inflict a horizontal movement penalty like other weapons for other races - your Assault type Shoota inc. Thus, the main proponents for ADAD spam, also will be adhering tightly to the central part of the strategy - an accurate weapon that can move and score headshots.