Heavies should be shit on by melee, it is their counter. JPA's are Heavy counters, and JPA's are meant to be melee primarily. I know he was using a Tact with a knife, but the average JPA is using a Power Sword right now, he still would have been able to clang for quite awhile before breaking. This is also an isolated fight, typically we do not get 10+ seconds of 1v1 time to sit there and dick around, you're getting shot in your ass. Obviously the correct move is to Dbash, but as I covered in my other thread, the animation time on a Dbash is plenty of time to get shot to hell as well currently. Even then, say the Dbash lands and you get the(obnoxious) 2 FA swings in during the stun time. That's not enough to kill most Heavies save maybe Eldar. Heavies are actually some of the toughest classes in the game anymore. The fight will continue after this, which could involve even more clangs or even RPS losses on the JPA vs the Heavy.
I disagree. I feel a heavy that gets caught in melee should be practically free food. This might encourage teams to have someone watch their back instead of running howling into the fray looking for "THE GLORY!" of their own.
...basically what the other guys said, but I'd add that if a heavy is caught by a melee off on their own with no support? That's their own fault. Heavies are there to lay down massive fire, not magically tie up a melee class for longer than it takes any non-upgraded ranged class to kill anything else. As Orpheus said, Melee is the hard counter to Heavies. Ranged classes already have distinct advantages over melee, especially anything on the order of axes/mauls/fists - the charge up time for a power attack is absolutely insane. From standing nut-to-butt, the charge up is long enough for the ranged to simply back away slowly and shoot, even if they were in a stun from a d-bash, that's how long it is. And that's ignoring the immunity by rolling (even when my power attack slices at them at the end of that roll, it still doesn't count, completely shitting upon anyone bothering to turn off the auto-attack and predict the enemy's end position). It's been a bad few months for melee.
Unless something is really, really different about Eldar force calcs a Knife vs Reaper SC takes 8 clangs to break where a Witchblade vs Reapers SC takes 3 swings, that's just over 2s of spam. I'm guessing all the swords are the same (APM is), but I will retest with SM/Orkies later when my test buddy is available. I've been crunching ec numbers all week Unless he's preempting it he won't have time to recoil from striking the Bash cast then queue the trigger in time to counter his fire delay. But there are other moves: Backing up or Evading and then either firing or going for the Power Attack works great. Waiting for him to assume the fire pose and then slapping his face works too. It's not a matter of 'git gud', don't think I've ever said that (cause I don't suck), but that Heavy literally did everything right when there were other/faster methods to kill his spam. My issue is that an Assault who does everything right still takes 5 full seconds to kill an enemy who I'm beating every move. I don't need them to break quicker, I can outplay 90% of Heavies, just need them to die quicker. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNjZdV_mZ0
Fist is an AV weapon with a token AI option just like the meltagun. Not sure why everyone insists its a PUNCH ALL THE THINGS weapon.
Were you not around in Alpha when MoN Fisters were the things of nightmares breaking daggers in one clang and swords/axes in 2 and had like 550HP or something like that? They need to separate the damage profiles on Fist like Grav weapons do. Then it can be properly brought into line.
Come now, by now you must all know this game is vastly in favor of Ranged, and that Melee isn't actually supposed to have a Mechanic that works everyone knows that? Think of the profit loss if Ranged actually had to work for their kills! "2 month roadmap Melee re-work liemyth" is never gonna happen.
Not sure why everyone is saying melee counters heavys.Melee counters literally nothing.Want to kill an aware heavy in 2seconds? bring a gun. Melee is just in game incase someone wants to roleplay a khorne zerker (badly) .
The only heavies I have seen/used that can effectively counter a melee getting into range is the plasma cannon with snapshots and on a lesser scale the Tempest (if you wanna kill yourself as well). Everything else has too long a start up time that your only hope for survival is to try and d-bash, dodge, clang and grenade your way out else they won't ever let you get off a shot.
