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+10 Damage vs + 20 Health

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PerfectionistMind, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. I'm planning to make a build it is MoK Power Fist +10% Lifesteal. Afaik you put damage mod to the left side so it won't conflict with lifesteal mod, so the options are I can have +40% Lifesteal with lifesteal mod, it's fixed btw and would either put Totem of the Eviscerator for +40 Health by renounce the +10 Damage to have fixed 200 damage on each swing or I would put Shard of Crimson +20 Health and +10 Damage Mod. So with +20 Health I will lose extra 10 damage's lifesteal and 10 damage to the enemy, but it is not a big deal. It's just 4 Lifesteal. But 10 damage still sounds good to me. But since I have no armor being a bit tankier would be the thing that I should focus on. I want that 200 fixed damage so badly. So with 3 swing I would take down vet, or I would do 570 Damage and have to shoot him. Or maybe I would have no chance to shoot but 3 swings in a row seems not possible. 10 Damage + 4 Lifesteal each swing vs. +20 Max. Health.

    My stats are:
    265 Health
    120 Armor
    100 Toughness with Eviscerator.

    254 Health
    120 Armor
    100 Toughness with Crimson.

    I've just realized that Health difference is just 11 due to having +4% Health trinket because of 100 LP less from advancements and Eviscerator wants 120 so that I can put +2-4% health trinkets with Crimson too to add extra 15. But on Eviscerator I have to put 4% one out. I don't know if 11 Health difference makes a difference though but dunno 10 Health + 4 Lifesteal sounds good.
  2. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    Clashing Engine > Survivability > Damage

    lifesteal will only work when you dont have armor and you could still fire your pistol once in between swings instead of trying to get that +10 damage per swing , and really going for more damage for the fist is kinda ... useless ?

    make yourself a favor and use something else than the fist , you will get better results
  3. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    10% extra life steal mod for 100 LP + MoK.
    Is a waist off 100 LP. the MoK alone is good enough.

    Put a clanging mod in there instead for only 20 lp.
    Else you will lose clangs vs Power mace + clanging mod.

    Using EHP CALC you can find out that:
    At 100 T and 385 ehp ( hp + armor+ T modification) your STD ( Shots till dead) for a bolter with no mods is 11 body-shots or 6 head shots.
    At 100 T and 374 ehp your STD for a bolter with no mods is 10 body-shots or 6 head shots.

    The difference is 1 body shot between the 2 listed builds.

    True time to kill ( asuming all shots land) vs unmodded bolter is:
    0.9 seconds headshots or 1.6 seconds bodyshots for 374 ehp.
    0.9 seconds headshots or 1.8 seconds bodyshots for 385 ehp.

    If i can be really honest with you i think both options ( the 11 life or 10 extra damage )are not really worth the Load outpoints.
    Its better to invest those points in something else.
    % trinkets are always good, I can recommend running % health and % stamina regen trinkets.
    Especially stamina regen trinkets if you dont have stamina or stamina regen in the wargear2 slot.

    Upgrading pistol to plasma and maybe an ammo pack instead of 10% lifesteal and a damage mod for the fist for a total 150 points is also a good option.

    Plasma doesn't need reload just time while you swing melee attacks and stuff . good for spamming during fights.

    or something like body armor .. why arent you like 120 or 130T ?
    I'd at least try and fit red power armor in there somewhere.
  4. Does Clashing Engine do higher impact? And on which slot you put it? Because +10% additional lifesteal makes big difference than just 30%. 76 vs 57. It felts more on PvP than PvE. But I don't know how more impact would be effective. I know it breaks weapons faster but just I'm not sure how much the difference would be. Maybe way more. Since impacts are fixed to 20 more and even Maul makes a good difference against Chainsword maybe Power Fist would break Chainsword in first parry. But I still would prefer the lifesteal though. But if it breaks weapons so fast then I wouldn't be in danger as much as I would when I have to fight them. So I will try it. Also 10 Damage including survivability by 4 Lifesteal each swings. :D

    Of course. That is the point to survive even when your armor get down. Because even with 160 Toughness your armor will get down. MoN seems useful with Power Fist but I still like MoK Power Fist. Well, firing your Pistol when engaged in melee is not a good thing when using Power Fist. It is just good when you are out of melee range. When I try to shoot in melee range inbetween swings I just caught to light attack spam. It is not a good thing to use Pistol on melee range when carrying Power Fist. Because you also get free damage inbetween swings. So you just shoot then do light attack and get the damage. But when I say it it sounded like same, because you take the free damage in both scenarios anyway. Well, I don't know. I just tried to shoot Pistol then kick to don't caught light attack but couldn't be fast enough to press LMB+RMB at the same time and died. :( It felts like if you press RMB constantly you can react faster to press both but if you press LMB constantly it seems it's slower. Well 15% of 38 is not even 1, so it's not equal. :D Because MoK gives 15% Lifesteal to ranged. But yeah 4 Lifesteal per swing seems useless too but I just wanted to consider anything when making build. I put there reasons. 200 fixed damage just sounds nice to me. :D And against vets 200 gets them down with 3 swings while 190 takes 3 swings and some shoots.
    Dude really +10% Lifesteal makes a noticeable difference. I tried it, even +40 Health makes some difference. But the difference was a lot. I heavily believe it was due to opponents. Because sometimes you get caught to attacks more than the other.

    So you put parry mod to the right? :((( I'm sure it is to make you less op due to not giving you total of 40% Lifesteal but more devastating power...

    I checked it but it seems confusing to me and what is EHP?
    Oh EHP is all defenses? What is T modification?

    So what worths you think? Can you suggest me a Power Fist build then? Actually I thought 10 Damage for melee, because once you caught melee as a shooter you basically died. And yeah 4 Lifesteal per swing doesn't sound useful even with having fast weapon like a Knife. Stamina Regen is useful only when you are happen to parry a lot with either Chainsword or Chain Axe. But do you think it would make a difference for Power Fist build? Since you don't happen to parry with a Power Fist a lot, it seems I won't even get benefit from Stamina Regen.

    Do you think Plasma Pistol would be even better than Bolt Pistol? Because Bolt Pistol has a better DPS if you ignore the Penetration and having no need to reload.

    Because I don't know I like to put more health to my build when I play MoK, because armor eventually gets down but you can recover your health on your own just by the lifesteal. Also when you get heavy attack your whole 120 armor gets down and you lose some health too. But instead losing everything you would be maybe lose less health with +40 and recover it with lifesteal.

    Can you explain me those values? There are values on the first row. But it doesn't say what are them. For example for Big Shoota it says 26.24 and it's lesser than Shoota. It's bullshit. It says 6.09 so it is not about damage then. What it is then? It doesn't say what it is and expect to you to understand. -_- But it says Toughness - Penetration. It doesn't make sense to me. If "-" means minus you can't have 80 more toughness than Penetration so that still doesn't make sense. If it isn't minus then what it is?
  5. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    If you really want to sacrifice Stamina for Hp.
    Something like this rather:


    I prefer something like this tho:
    I believe in more rolls = more damage mitigation than extra hp can ever give me.
    You could swap the 30% regen for +1 stamina also if your not a fan of regen.


    As you can see the survivability difference is minimal , just 1 body shot again , but build 2 has more invulnerability frames over time to mitigate damage.
    And it has the impact mod.

    Imo focusing everything on HP is only viable for MoN TA and the odd HA spam MoK with LL axe build.
  6. I use MC Power Fist, I shouldn't?

    What is 20 Toughness? Is it additional Toughness after 100? 80 still doesn't make sense since you can go up 60 max. So EHP is effective HP I suppose but what is it actually? How it counted as effective and how 432.65 being equal to 38 DPS?

    What is difference between Bullets to Kill and True Bullets to Kill?

    Btw how to add numbers on the red box? I can't.
  7. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    The difference between bullets to kill and true bullets to kill is that the game cant fire half a bullet .
    so when the math says you need 11.2 bullets to kill someone thatch 12 bullets in the actual game because you cant fire 0.2 bullet.

    38 is the damage of a single bolter shot not the dps.

    Dps is damage per seconds and the bolter shoots more than 1 bullet per second.

    its dps was 211 or something i think.
    thats why it takes less than 2 seconds to kill you if you get hit by all shots.
  8. Ah, I understood. First I thought you pointed out on the hitreg issue because by half I thought you meant half of whole. XD

    But you didn't answer other questions. :(

    Btw Clash Engine costs 20 LP? I just calculated your loadout and it says 20.
  9. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    read again .
    I wast done editing :oops:

    also if you want to use the ehp calculator you need to make a copy to your own drive and than you can edit the numbers your self in your own version.

    the older ehp calculator just listed 100 120 130 140 etc etc T values
    but for some reason he changed it , I dont know why, its a bid weird to read.

    but just imagin 0 = 100 T
    and 20 = 120 T etc etc
  10. Reading again doesn't answers my questions. -_-
    Wast? What?

    Eh, not gonna happen.

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